Tuesday, March 28, 2006

Summit, NJ Taxes To Reach $1,000 A Month

From the Star Ledger:

Summit reaching a tax milestone

Summit is about to cross the Rubicon.

The average city homeowner will soon pay more than $1,000 a month in property taxes, with Summit becoming the first of Union County's 21 communities to cross the threshold.

With the city and the school board both considering 8 percent tax hikes, and the county portion expected to rise by 6 percent, the average homeowner will soon be staring down the barrel of a $12,521 annual property tax bill, a jump of 13.5 percent, or nearly $1,500 over the past two years.

Furthermore, city and school officials believe that unless residents want to see class sizes increased dramatically, or substantial cuts to police, fire and public works services, or they finally agree to the need for regionalized services, there may be no end to this upward spiral.
...
While Summit will cross the $12,000 mark first, several towns may follow within the next few years. Taxes for the average homeowner in Westfield crossed the $10,000 line last year, while New Providence and Scotch Plains hovered at $9,000.

Caveat Emptor!
Grim

54 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Funny I was just making a comment about this on "saying goodbye to the bubble" 12K is a bargain! New construction homes in the $2Million range are 36K!
Are Summit schools hiring Harvard professors?
As interest rates go up, taxes go up, inventory goes up....gues what folks prices go down....who said they couldn't see a 40% drop?
rw

3/28/2006 06:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Escape from NJ said...

Why does anyone under the age of 35 live in NJ? I have begun my search for greener pastures in the south. I may take a 20%-30% cut in pay, however housing is 50%-60% cheaper and property taxes 1/10 of NJ. Also no state income tax in most states. Once again why does anyone under 35 live in NJ?

3/28/2006 06:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

good luck being a dam yankee! the rest of your life.

3/28/2006 07:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The NJ tax situation alone will cause many to leave the state. Making 80-100K is a good wage elsewhere but not in NNJ. I see the folks making 100K and less making a mass exodus. Hell, they're already doing that.

3/28/2006 07:33:00 PM  
Anonymous trroll said...

Very OT,

please check this out...
chicagofinace - it believe it's your domain - so good luck.

Pick stocks, win a Maserati


http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/thisweek/

3/28/2006 08:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ddddd

3/28/2006 08:14:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"good luck being a dam yankee! the rest of your life."


Southerners are actually a nice lot, as opposed to most Northerners who look down on the South.

I'd move to the South in a second if my company relocated.

Nicer people, better standard of living, better housing, cheaper housing, 1+ acre lots, better weather, great food, less traffic, shorter commute...

3/28/2006 08:50:00 PM  
Blogger grim said...

Tax whack in Jersey City

Jersey City taxpayers are looking at an 18 percent property tax hike.

With three months left in the fiscal year, the City Council is expected to vote tomorrow to adopt a $130.4 million budget that includes the increase.

The new budget, roughly $25 million more than last year’s, would raise taxes from $19.30 per $1,000 of assessed value to $22.85 per $1,000 of assessed value, city officials said today.

For a property owner whose home is assessed at $100,000, the taxes would jump from $1,913 per year to $2,285.
...
And there are also county taxes to contend with. The county budget hasn’t been introduced yet and is not due until the end of the year. The current county tax levy is $1,194 per $100,000 of assessed value.


grim

3/28/2006 09:01:00 PM  
Blogger grim said...

More land up for sale in Hoboken.. Anyone up for a condo project?

Hoboken to sell land to plug budget hole

The City Council voted last night to designate the one-block area around the city's municipal garage as a site in need of redevelopment, but officials have only three months to craft a redevelopment plan and sell the site so that the city can use $4 million to plug a budget hole. The fiscal year ends June 30.

Residents - many of whom are smarting from the city's failed plan to take two properties through eminent domain in the Northwest Redevelopment zone - remained distrustful of the council's actions

3/28/2006 09:04:00 PM  
Blogger Richard said...

people pay it because of it's proximity to NYC, mostly for work. NYC is like no other place in the world. if you don't take advantage of it there's no reason for you to pay the kind of taxes and overall cost of living so you should move somewhere else. if culture, the arts, diversity and pitting yourself against the best and the brightest the world has to offer entices you, that's why you'd stay.

3/28/2006 09:06:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"Jersey City taxpayers are looking at an 18 percent property tax hike."

That's odd, don't all those new condos being built bring in more tax revenue already?

3/28/2006 09:31:00 PM  
Blogger chicagofinance said...

The Pin?

http://www.hudsonteatenants.org/tearoom/viewtopic.php?p=2863#2863

3/28/2006 09:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Yoyo said...

Richard -
To be honest, it takes so much time and effort to afford to stay here, does anyone have the time or money to enjoy it?

3/28/2006 10:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whining as usual....wake up folks! We have the highest per capita income in this entire country!
You guys may have a tough go of it, but many many people in this state do not.
Many many people in this state are, in fact, loaded.
Most people will not leave. Lets face, NYC is a major reason, the other being big Pharm.

Remember that property taxes are deductible so even though you are paying more, you also have more to deduct, so it comes out you are paying not as much more as you would think.

Also remember, when you move to the South, you can purchase a mansion like home for about 250K. You wanna know what that home will be worth in about 10 years?.......250K!
There are no zoning restrictions in the South and plenty of land, so property values go nowhere.

3/28/2006 10:28:00 PM  
Blogger gravitymatters said...

>>>wake up folks! We have the highest per capita income in this entire country!<<<

I totally agree.... however, we also probably have the highest per capita wannabees/keep up with the jones types too. they (IMO) pushed the prices up & will likely be the driving force towards lower prices as affordability becomes a MAJOR issue.

we shall see.

3/28/2006 10:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's right, just keep packing them in. As if NJ doesn't have enough people per square mile! Young people, stick around, don't worry about the crippling taxes, overcrowding, congestion, corrupt politicians, bad weather, crumbling infrastructure and subpar college-level education... you're close to New York! But, the South... ooooh don't go there. The taxes are too low, you can afford a house that's not on top of your neighbor, the people are too nice, the economy is growing...

Give ME a break. I don't think the overpriced nature of New Jersey would bother me so much if New Jerseyans weren't so proud of how miserable the place is.

Anon 1028, who cares if your house doesn't go up in value, you can afford to own the damn thing. And it'll be... get this... NEW. You won't have to pretend you like the architecture of garbage box dumped next to another garbage box behind a train line just to convince yourself its worth half a million.

Now that the rant is done, I should ask about something constructive and stop wasting everyone's time by beating my head against the wall. NJ will stay crowded because of pharm and NY. No one's leaving. Further, if this is the place you grew up and love, who the heck am I to question. But, one thing I don't understand is why big corporations stay in NJ when they could pay their employees less for the same standard of living in the dreaded South? Anybody have any ideas.

JP

3/28/2006 10:55:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"Whining as usual....wake up folks! We have the highest per capita income in this entire country!"

And who had the highest per capita income 4 years ago, when houses cost 100% less?

3/28/2006 11:03:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"But, one thing I don't understand is why big corporations stay in NJ when they could pay their employees less for the same standard of living in the dreaded South? Anybody have any ideas."

They're not staying. JPMorgan last year moved their entire back office/IT to Houston. Six months ago, CSFB moved their entire IT staff to Raleigh, North Carolina.

It's a big world out there -- NJ sucks!

3/28/2006 11:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I lived in NJ for 15 years. It IS a great place to live.

But then I retired and even though my pension is OK, I simply grew tired of the taxes and living expenses. So I sold my place and moved south.

I do miss the area. BUT, my property taxes are now $1000/yr. And let's face it, the weather in NJ is kinda screwy. I surely don't miss the snow. My property was 250 ft long and I had to shovel it EVERY snow day else I couldn't get my car out of the drive way (yeah, I was rq'd to do it anyway).

Still, sometimes I wish I ... well, anyway.

3/28/2006 11:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Elric said...

Whining as usual...

Woah, that's out of line. Families earning good, middle class wages are utterly priced out of this region. Pointing that out is not whining.

You guys may have a tough go of it, but many many people in this state do not.

Good for them. What does that have to do with this discussion? The well-moneyed among us are more than welcome to stay, however the point made was that a lot of us would do better in the long run to leave. Pointing out that some people are doing well does not change the fact that others are not.

Many many people in this state are, in fact, loaded.

Again, kudos to that fortunate minority. They're good fortune is of little relevence to everyone else however. What point are you trying to make with this?

Most people will not leave. Lets face, NYC is a major reason, the other being big Pharm.

Most people in NJ do not work in NYC or big Pharma. Many do, most don't. Of course most people won't leave, statistically speaking. That doesn't mean they shouldn't consider it though.

Also remember, when you move to the South, you can purchase a mansion like home for about 250K. You wanna know what that home will be worth in about 10 years?.......250K!

Wow, real estate doesn't appreciate at all in the South? Then I guess there must be no housing bubble there. Oh wait...

Still, even if housing didn't go up all that much elsewhere, that should be incentive enough to not rely on real estate as your primary long term investment strategy. Isn't that one of the main lessons of the RE bubble anyway?

3/28/2006 11:42:00 PM  
Blogger skep-tic said...

someone made a good point here the other day that prop taxes around here force you effectively to buy your house again every 40 yrs.

compare this to other states where property taxes effectively force you to "buy" your house again only once every 250 yrs.

kind of hard to compare.

3/29/2006 12:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The whining continues.
Hmmm....a town in which state was rated best place to live by Money Magazine (and that state even more in the top 10)....anyone venture to guess?
And which state was recently ranked 5th best to live in - (rankings were based on many factors INCLUDING economic activity and education system)?...anyone venture to guess?

Unrealtor - corporations by and large are staying. JPMorgan Chase continues to run backoffice operations in Jersey City. Anything that was moved to Houston was moved from NY to Houston.
Pharma is going nowhere. Telecom had withered but is slowly coming back and newly established businesses (a la Vonage) still choose NJ as their home.

Elric - the fact that there are many in this state who earn lots of money has a lot to do with this discussion. This discussion, apparently, is about high taxes in Summit, NJ (not in Newark, NJ buddy). The people in Summit can weather the storm.
As for moving to the South - I don't see what that has to do with this discussion. The South has always been a cheaper alternative to the NY Metro area, there is nothing new about that. Sure it's warm. Sure the people are friendly. Employment opportunities suck though, as they are usually concentrated entirely on one industry in each state. And there is no ethnic diversity - in the South, you are either white or black. If that doesn't matter to you then fine, move.

3/29/2006 12:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"someone made a good point here the other day that prop taxes around here force you effectively to buy your house again every 40 yrs.

compare this to other states where property taxes effectively force you to "buy" your house again only once every 250 yrs."



That's quite a compelling point.

3/29/2006 12:45:00 AM  
Blogger mjrmajor said...

Regionalized services are the only way NJ will ever be able to lower their property taxes, imo. A lot of people who have lived in NJ can't conceive of it being done but other states do it and it works. It can even work really, really well.

I grew up in NJ then moved to Fairfax County, VA about 5 years ago. The level of wealth here is on par with anywhere in NNJ. And the schools, police, fire dept, etc are just as good if not better in most cases. Many local high schools are considered among the best in the nation. The level of crime here is very low.

One thing that I think causes resistance to regionalized services in NJ is the very close proximity of insane wealth to awful ghettos. If anyone knows Plainfield, NJ you probably know its not where you want to be at night. But about 3 miles north is Watchung NJ and some areas with serious wealth. You can drive from the crackhouse to mansions(real ones, not the Mc variety) in 5-10 mins. Would Watchung want to pool tax dollars/services with Plainfield? Would Westfield want to do it with Bound Brook?

There's uber-rich pockets here in Fairfax(Great Falls, median income in the mid to high 100ks) too, but not the extreme ghettos of NJ. The rich areas do carry a certain cachet like you'd expect, but the sharing of taxes/services works.

My image of the super rich towns in this article is of small enclaves that spend the taxes on hiring a virtual *army* of cops, with specially painted cars, to keep the riffraff out. When I moved to Fairfax one of the first things I noticed was a *lot* less cops, and the cars all look the same, i.e. no new paint scheme that varies by town every 2 miles. Im no criminal justice expert, but being able to buy cop cars for an entire county(pop 1 million +), coordinate the auxiliary support services(dispatching, maintenance, equipment, etc) on that large of a scale vs a town of maybe 50,000 has to save just an absolute shitload of money. I'm sure other services(schools, fire, etc) experience similar economies of scale.

But Highland Park, NJ would rather go it alone. A virtual army of police and the main street in town, Rt. 27, has all the lights change simultaneously so you're guaranteed to hit several red lights.

Sorry for the rant, but this just reminded me how glad I am to be out of NJ.

3/29/2006 02:51:00 AM  
Anonymous RW said...

$12,000 in 20 years is 240K. You could buy two homes in many places in the south for that!

Frankly really like New Jersey and LOVE NYC- but I wonder how we will ever be able to afford to stay in the same house when we reitre. We always envisioned having our kids come home with grandkids to the home they grew up in. It's impossible.

Property taxes are deductable?
HMMM..... the more money you make the less you are able to deduct, so generally the people with the highest taxes are those who benefit least.

3/29/2006 05:59:00 AM  
Blogger chicagofinance said...

To whiner about whiners:

1. As mentioned, phase out of itemized deductions, also AMT.

2. You point to pharma [and telecom, and other corporations] as some imprimatur of ongoing wealth creation. Go ask the executives and employees. I do. They are being laid off, downsized, outsourced, experiencing stagnating wages.
Weak argument.

3. This discussion is about relative pricing, and pricing on the margin. The 100% rise in 4 years encapsulates the entire point. There are fundamental strengths of New Jersey, but the increase in real estate is prima facie evidence that housing prices have disconnected from fundamentals.

3/29/2006 06:56:00 AM  
Blogger Richie said...

I don't live in NJ for the proximity to NYC.

I live here because I have a huge family and moving is not an option..

-Richie

3/29/2006 08:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Elric said...

Elric - the fact that there are many in this state who earn lots of money has a lot to do with this discussion. This discussion, apparently, is about high taxes in Summit, NJ (not in Newark, NJ buddy). The people in Summit can weather the storm.

Anon, I understand what you are saying - but I don't see this article as being so much about Summit as it is an indicator of where Northern NJ is going as a whole. Yes, the population of Summit, by and large, can probably cope with taxes like this - that further proves my point. If the topic was just about Summit, why bother to discuss it at all, since they can just take it in stride?

As for moving to the South - I don't see what that has to do with this discussion.

[escape from nj] brought it up (which I thought was fair), you responded to his/her point, and I responded to you about it. Was it relevant when you responded to it?

The South has always been a cheaper alternative to the NY Metro area, there is nothing new about that. Sure it's warm. Sure the people are friendly. Employment opportunities suck though, as they are usually concentrated entirely on one industry in each state.

Overgeneralized and exaggerated, but still fair points relative to the Northeast, I suppose.

And there is no ethnic diversity - in the South, you are either white or black.

And in NNJ's wealthier towns, you are either white or... white. Aren't generalizations fun?

If that [ethnic diversity] doesn't matter to you then fine, move.

Be careful what you freely imply about others.

Look, my first choice would always be to stay here - that's why I'm giving this area every chance before I reach a decision. Unfortunately, economic concerns and the ability to give the best possible life to my family must override all other considerations; and it's not looking great in NNJ's favor.

Sorry if I've come off as harsh or needlessly nitpicky - I admit to being hung up on the original "whining" comment.

3/29/2006 09:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Things will change when you have a few towns go bankrupt - this will happen - no business or organization can survive financially with costs rising double digit rates - The pensions, healthcare costs, and paying debt obiligations will overwhelm towns in the not so distant future.

So, be sure to avoid any municipal bond offering in the lovely State of New Jersey.

3/29/2006 09:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regionalizing services is a very viable way to go to lower taxes... Pennsylvania does it along the mainline... and the Lower Merion school district is one of the best schools in not just PA but in the US... but will NJ go this particular way? who knows? it's pure speculation... logically, it's how it should end up.

3/29/2006 10:17:00 AM  
Blogger pesche22 said...

new jersey has become like a foreign
country,,,, we live like animals here and most people dont get it

3/29/2006 10:33:00 AM  
Blogger pesche22 said...

new jersey has become like a foreign
country,,,, we live like animals here and most people dont get it

3/29/2006 10:33:00 AM  
Blogger grim said...

My argument was always that regionalization will work to lower taxes, but only if massive layoffs are part of it.

While it's easy to point to regionalization as the solution, in practice it may be much more painful than first though.

grim

3/29/2006 10:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another thing, most of these people will be in AMT land already, so this tax wont even be offset by federal deduction.

Why do we live here again?

3/29/2006 11:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My folks in Westchester Co, NY had $12k/yr taxes on a quarter acre 3br, the mortgage was like $100/mo and the taxes $1000!! They recently empty-nested to northern NY (the Berkshires) and the tax bill in farmland is closer to $1500/yr on 4 acres, and no state income tax on teacher pensions. Made about 1400% on the house too.

I definitely can't afford anything within 50mi of NYC, and am moving a little bit south myself. NYC culture is fine, but I'd rather visit than live there. I have friends looking to buy in NNJ though, and I've been advising them to rent until the bubble bursts and keep their credit powder dry.

If I were working in NYC or north Jersey, I'd move to one of the philly suburbs (one without a wage tax). BTW, taxfoundation.org is GREAT reading to compare states' tax burdens.

3/29/2006 11:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chicago Whiner:

The majority of people at this time, even those with large incomes, do NOT pay AMT. That will change, of course, if AMT continues to exist in it's current form, but expect some administration or Congress to phase it out or dramatically alter it before that.

And tell me which pharma or telecom companies are currently laying off people. Pharma = none. The days of heavy telecom layoffs are done (I personally know for a fact that at&t has been hiring heavily).
People like to, however, believe such things without giving them much though, because they fit in well with the notion that things in this country are not, in general, going well (high deficit, war in Iraq.....no jobs?? yeah that makes sense I guess given everything else seems to suck).
I call those people Krugmanites.

3/29/2006 11:30:00 AM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"BTW, taxfoundation.org is GREAT reading to compare states' tax burdens."


Interesting website. Here's info on NJ:

* New Jersey’s State/Local Tax Burden Above National Average

* New Jersey’s 2006 Business Tax Climate Ranks 49th (that's out of 50, of course)

* New Jersey Levies Sales Tax above National Median; Cigarette Tax, Nation’s Second Highest

* New Jersey Property Taxes: Highest Per Capita in the Nation

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/44.html

3/29/2006 11:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Grim,

I agree with you 100%... with regionalization, layoffs will come... but that's what has to eventually happen... cut payroll and duplicity.

3/29/2006 12:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"new jersey has become like a foreign
country,,,, we live like animals here and most people dont get it"

No doubt, albeit rather pampered animals driving BMWs and Mercedes...LMAO

3/29/2006 12:33:00 PM  
Blogger Grim Ghost said...


The majority of people at this time, even those with large incomes, do NOT pay AMT.


High property taxes on high income people = AMT bait


And tell me which pharma or telecom companies are currently laying off people. Pharma = none.


Nonsense.

Pharma = Merck. They've been laying off people and have increased layoffs planned over the next 2 years. I have relatives who work there. Aventis has planned layoffs as well. JOhnson and JOhnson shut down a plant, and Pfizer shut down a plant last December. Pharma is doing OK, but its loosing jobs in general, not gaining them.


The days of heavy telecom layoffs are done. (I personally know for a fact that at&t has been hiring heavily).

Wrong. The ATT/SBC merger is leading to layoffs. In any case, the small number of people that Vonage is hiring do not make any sort of dent in the the large number of telco layoffs over the last decade or so.

If the NJ job and corporate market is so great, why is the budget in a state of crisis ?

3/29/2006 12:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The majority of people at this time, even those with large incomes, do NOT pay AMT."

Yes, but if 49% paid AMT, your statement would still be true while not minimizing its impact. There are three things that will put you into AMT the fastest - 1) high income, 2) high mortgage int deduction, 3) high state/city taxes. NJ has all three of these in spades.

3/29/2006 12:47:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

Here's a dream house in Summit:

278 Morris Turnpike
$729,000
MLS 2260113
http://www.realtor.com/Prop/1056999355


Assessed value: $179,100
Purchased in Dec 2002 for $265,000
2005 taxes: $5,220

Don't let this one get away!

3/29/2006 01:25:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

$40,000 price drop on this Summit gem, only another $400,000 more to go before this trailer is worth buying and bulldozing:

MLS 2205176
4 Brainerd Road, Summit
$689,000 => $649,000

http://www.realtor.com/Prop/1052742885

3/29/2006 01:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"MLS 2205176
4 Brainerd Road, Summit
$689,000 => $649,000

http://www.realtor.com/Prop/1052742885"

Hard to believe it now, but these bizarre wedge shaped homes were perceived as desirable in the 1950s...of course, by 2050, the future inhabitants of this planet will be saying the same about today's McMansions...

3/29/2006 02:37:00 PM  
Blogger grim said...

Since were on the pharma kick.

P.F. Labs (Purdue Pharma) closed it's plant in Totowa last year..

grim

3/29/2006 02:43:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"Hard to believe it now, but these bizarre wedge shaped homes were perceived as desirable in the 1950s"

They're really an eyesore. They look exactly like a mobile home. I've driven right by colonials for sale that are near these things -- they're an albatross for property values.

3/29/2006 02:44:00 PM  
Blogger Richard said...

i'm baffled. while it's true that inventory is building up, the nicer houses continue to move at a pretty rapid clip over asking, usually within 25 days on market. this market still has legs folks.

3/29/2006 04:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"i'm baffled. while it's true that inventory is building up, the nicer houses continue to move at a pretty rapid clip over asking, usually within 25 days on market. this market still has legs folks."

There are still a few Darwin Award-eligible buyers out there who are convinced that house prices only go up.

3/29/2006 04:26:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"There are still a few Darwin Award-eligible buyers out there who are convinced that house prices only go up."

Yes, a few Greater Fools remain. But I'm seeing many nices homes sit, so some people are getting it.

3/29/2006 04:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1) The aforementioned Pharma "layoffs" are very very minor, few hundred people here or there in organizations that have 10's of thousands of employees. Merck is the only one with significant layoffs and it's not because of a bad business environment in NJ, it's because of a bad business decision on their part.

2) AMT does not affect 49% of those who make an above average salary. Of those making 100-200K annually, it is estimated 16% will be affected by AMT.
For those who make more, who really cares.

3/30/2006 06:37:00 PM  
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