Exodus From Jersey
From the News & Observer:
Dollars follow white collars
More white-collar jobs are moving to North Carolina to take advantage of the state's lower-cost professionals.
Executives with technology and financial service companies say they can slash wage expenses by moving from more-expensive markets in the Northeast and on the West Coast.
For example, this year the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants is moving about 400 positions to Durham from New Jersey and New York.
The move will save an estimated $11 million annually on labor and, to a lesser extent, rent, said Tony Pugliese, who heads the group's new Durham office.
Other companies drawn by skilled and affordable labor include Headway Corporate Resources, a national staffing firm that moved its headquarters to Raleigh from New York City this year, and Arysta LifeScience, a Tokyo company that moved its North American headquarters to Cary this year from San Francisco.
"The New York market was just too inflated because of competition for employees," said Pugliese, who also heads finance and operations for the 340,000-member accountants group. "We had bidding wars to attract workers, and that's just not a healthy environment for a nonprofit like us to be in."
...
Driving the state's low-cost advantage is cheap housing, relative to major U.S. markets. And that lowers living costs and makes it easier for companies to hold down salaries.
According to Bankrate.com, someone earning $93,000 in San Francisco would need to earn just $50,000 in the Raleigh-Cary metropolitan area to maintain the same standard of living. The same goes for a person earning $73,000 annually in the Bergen-Passaic area of New Jersey, part of metropolitan New York. The calculation is based largely on home prices, but it also factors in services and other costs.
...
The accountants group jobs pay an average annual salary of $53,500, compared with about $66,875 for the same positions in New York and New Jersey. The jobs include accounting, computer programming, database management and editorial positions. In Durham County, the average annual salary is $32,864.
...
Since 1999, average management wages rose 43 percent in North Carolina, compared with a 32-percent rise in New Jersey and a 37 percent increase nationally, statistics from the Bureau of Labor Statistics show.
115 Comments:
Exodus: movement of jah people! oh-oh-oh, yea-eah!
.......
Men and people will fight ya down (tell me why!)
When ya see jah light. (ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!)
Let me tell you if youre not wrong; (then, why? )
Everything is all right.
So we gonna walk - all right! - through de roads of creation:
We the generation (tell me why!)
(trod through great tribulation) trod through great tribulation.
Exodus, all right! movement of jah people!
Oh, yeah! o-oo, yeah! all right!
Exodus: movement of jah people! oh, yeah!
Yeah-yeah-yeah, well!
Uh! open your eyes and look within:
Are you satisfied (with the life youre living)? uh!
We know where were going, uh!
We know where were from.
Were leaving babylon,
Some Areas of NC are really lovely.. But only time will tell.. I know quite a few people who have moved from this area to NC . Charlotte is very young and pretty town .. However, I know quite a few people my age (mid 30's) Who moved to FL and are trying to move back.. They had enough with the hurricanes and schools are horrible. Not to mention the biggest complaint is that everything down there is the same. Flat land.
The slowness is what gets to you, and it also is indicitive of the wage disparity. Honestly people around here (NYC Metro) are crazy and I LIKE IT! I do not like waiting, I like the fast pace, NC is nice but it if you are from NJ/NYC it is like being dead. While it is much better than the midwest or Florida it is still not NYC, Chicago, SF, or LA. There is a reason people put up with the high costs and shitty homes in these places. There is also a reason industry is centered around these cities. That will not change, these places will always trade at a premium, what is going to happen as an adjustment needs to occur. The wrong question is will housing fall? The right question is when?
This exodus is upsetting though, I am especially sad over the closing of Bell Labs where so much of our technoology was invented.
I'll agree that things are slower down there.. But the culture thing .. Really its depends what you define culture as.. There is the opera, museumns ect. If you are talking diversity then Charlotte isn't NYC area. Butits no longer back woods either.The exodus there started in the late 80's.. Have you been there?..I am not in the NYC area for the culture ..You can seek out culture anywhere.. I am in the area for the schools and the pace.We get more "new" stuff quicker..
NEWS ALERT FROM Asbury Park Press !!!
Can you call this a "Fire Sale" in Ocean and Monmouth Counties- New Jersey Real Estate scandal ?!!!!!
Offers to purchase properties owned by beleaguered real estate mogul Solomon Dwek have so far reached $109.1 million- amount comes to about one-third of the $321 million in claims lodged against Dwek's 350-parcel empire
---
Offers on Dwek property top $109M
Amount is a third of claims against empire
Posted by the Asbury Park Press on 06/15/06
BY JASON METHOD
STAFF WRITER
FREEHOLD — Offers to purchase properties owned by beleaguered real estate mogul Solomon Dwek have so far reached $109.1 million, the Superior Court's fiscal agent said Wednesday.
The amount comes to about one-third of the $321 million in claims lodged against Dwek's 350-parcel empire. The claims came in a legal and financial scramble after Dwek, 33, of Ocean Township was accused by PNC Bank of bouncing a $25 million check in April.
The highest price offered so far is $6.5 million for a commercial property off Monmouth Road, West Long Branch. That property is owned by Dwek's company, WLB Center LLC, which paid $5.25 million for the 13.7-acre tract in May 2005.
Donald M. Lomurro, the court-appointed fiscal agent reviewing Dwek's assets, predicted that bids on the properties will lead to "bigger and better numbers." He said the offers so far are considered valid because they equal or exceed the amount Dwek paid for the properties.
Beyond the lawsuit, Dwek has been charged by the FBI with criminal bank fraud. He is free on $10 million bond.
Superior Court Judge Alexander D. Lehrer froze Dwek's assets last month and has said he intends to see if selling many of the properties can satisfy all of the claims.
Lomurro said investors in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Connecticut and elsewhere continue to inquire about the properties. Many of Dwek's properties are held by limited liability companies that have other owners, who can buy out Dwek's interest in the firms.
Nearly half of the money is offered by Deal Property Acquisitions LLC, which proposed spending $45.6 million dollars to buy just 13 of the properties. Those properties include commercial properties in Dover Township, Red Bank, Ocean Township, North Carolina and Pennsylvania.
Nothing could be learned about the identity of that company Wednesday.
Bob Marley references Metro? :)
"High-tech people didn't move."
Probably because San Fran is a beautiful place to live.
However, choosing between NJ and Releigh would be a snap decision for me, if a good job was there. Raleigh is often described as a park containing a city. NJ is just a bunch of suburbs on the fringes of some of the worst cities in the country (Newark, Patterson, Camden, etc.)
NJ's primary draw, is that it's next to New York. But that's like buying a junk house, because the one next door is nice. :)
InvestorDavid:
I agree. Many of those AICPA ppl have new jobs already or are starting soon.
North Carolina is in deep dookey on classroom standards under NCLB (not that NCLB is the best thing), but I heard a rpt. on NPR this morning - huge percentage of teachers in many areas there have no certification.
What would you do...move down there but leave your kids here with Bube to get an education?
Pat
Hmmm, lots of generalizations flying around.
If a move to North Carolina ever happens, I'd prefer to make friends with the local folks than transplants from Brooklyn, etc.
The pace is "slower" in the South, because they put more emphasis on enjoying life and having strong family ties.
We could learn a thing or two from those folks.
"Currently, there are 30,889 properties advertised for sale in NJ on our site. For Residential Properties that are Multiple Listed with Garden State, 99% are available to be searched on this site."
http://www.gsmls.com/
No, each kid has to have a different name down there, too.
If you rename them all Bubba, one of them will have to be called Junior, and then everybody will think your name is Bubba, too.
Do you remember the show "Northern Exposure?"
That's how I picture real North Carolina living..just without the parkas.
Pat
So, Raleigh and Charlotte are like little islands of New Jersey stuck in the middle of a bunch of flat tobacco fields.
Well, there's also the beach, I guess. You could move to Raleigh, buy a 2nd house on the Outer Banks, find some "cheap" hurricane and flood insurance, and VOILA, just pretend you are at home.
Why bother going?
Pat
I think we were trying to dash generalizations.. Those areas aren't for everyone. Me one of them ...but I can see why people would leave here...
Metroplexual,
too funny.
"UnRealtor said...
Bob Marley references Metro? :) "
I like ther reggae Mon! It also seemed like appropriate lyrics to the topic.
Especially,
"Uh! open your eyes and look within:
Are you satisfied (with the life youre living)? uh!
We know where were going, uh!
We know where were from.
Were leaving babylon"
"I personally found NJ area to be much better for the kids' education than SF area."
Yes, schools in Berkeley might cause permanent brain damage. Nice scenery though!
"Once, I was in a business trip to Cincinnati for a week. I thought I was going to die from suffocation."
LOL. But consider the reverse, they might view this area as filled with people obsessed with McMansions, H2s, and the "Vagina Monolouges."
Also, people from New York consider New Jersey a backwater, filled with hicks and lowlifes.
Perception is not always reality, or is it? :)
If you are a typical professional in NJ not making in the mid-six digits, and don’t already own a home, where do you think you are going to live in NJ? It’s not going to be one of the premier towns. At least not until, or if, we see a significant correction in home prices.
Maybe you could claw your way into a starter cape in some run down blue-collar town in Bergen or Passaic County with some ghetto neighbors who bought years ago when it was cheap. Not your style? Maybe you could take the longer commute and move to the middle of Sussex County and get something a little nicer, but next to some toothless hillbilly with a car on the front lawn who bought years ago.
At least in NC you can move into a top-tier town, close to your job and among professional, educated neighbors, in a situation similar to yours.
Raleigh is often described as a park containing a city. NJ is just a bunch of suburbs on the fringes of some of the worst cities in the country (Newark, Patterson, Camden, etc.)
funny as hell, man! classic!
reminds me of Chris Rock's bit about somekind of Indian parade -
"...you see 2 or 3 Indians. the rest of them's just a bunch of puerto ricans with feathers in their head."
Hey, if you don't want to move from NJ to NC, then DON'T! There are plenty of folks from NJ and NY here already. I'm in the Raleigh/Cary area, and it's almost odd to meet a someone NOT from the Northeast.
We definitely don't need close-minded snobs like some of you here driving up housing costs and taking up all the open space. (Yes, we still have green areas, it's not all concrete yet.) So stay home!
Also, we have some of the TOP universities and medical facilities in the country -- Duke, UNC Chapel Hill, and Wake Forest, among others. We're not all dumb hicks.
Most transplants I've met here are usually pretty nice. You guys must be the exceptions.
Signed, a Native North Carolinian
PS - I've never met anyone named "Bubba".
Oh...come on, Carolina!
You know this is just joking going on.
I love NC, and have been there many times! Shoot, my sister lived on the Abemarle for years. Whalehead beach brings back some of the best childhood memories! Honestly, NC turned me on to biscuits and gravy!
We're having a housing affordability crisis up here that's pretty nasty and getting nastier. And the solution is not for NJ companies to ditch us.
Pat
Can't we all agree that all the pro-NJ and anti-NJ people commenting here are equally snobbish, including anon 11:19.
The only thing bad that I can say about NC is pfisteria. BTW, Carolina NJ has an urbanized corridor from NYC to philly, which is mostly suburban. I am in the NW corner of the state and it is quite bucolic up this way. But as was mentioned we have an affordability crisis here and as the article states this could be the floodgates opening from here to a place near you. In other words our problems here today may become yours tomorrow if there is a mass exodus.
I find most of the comments here particularly ironic. As the only member of my family living in NJ (and having many friends & coworkers across the country) I can tell you that NJ has a reputation outside the state and it is NOT good and they love to tell me about it!
(Unrealtor touched upon similiar thoughts)
Andy
It's not a matter of wanting to leave New Jersey, it's a matter of having to leave New Jersey. Where are us working class people going to live?
Just got back from a trip to Austin Texas. Now, obviously it is not the real Texas but Austin is FABULOUS. Festivals, live music, museums, restaurants, theatre, well educated population, great schools, good university, you name it. What a revalation. And you can live in a nice house in a nice neighbourhood and be no more than a mile or so out of downtown.
And its cheap.
Austin rocks, from what i remember of 6th Street. Good mexican food too.
I can definitely understand the housing affordability problem, housing costs here have jumped tremendously in the past two decades.
Rentininnj --As far as areas around Raleigh to live -- Cary is pricier than some of the surrounding towns, but they have a wonderful greenways and parks system. Holly Springs and Fuquay are very nice and small-townish, about a 30 min drive from downtown Raleigh. Garner is the same distance, more East. Don't know much about Wake Forest. Morrisville and Apex are also fast-growing areas, but there's RDU airport in Morrisville so there's the planes. You definitely get more bang for your buck in the areas outside Raleigh. If you move into the(unincorporated) county you also get way lower taxes, but may have to deal with wells and septic systems.
If you have kids, check which school they'll be going to, but keep in mind they rezone a lot. Right now they are having overcrowding problems.
I'd choose based on where your job will be - North Raleigh or Western Wake Co if you're working in RTP, more east or south if you're closer to downtown.
"For example, this year the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants is moving about 400 positions to Durham from New Jersey and New York."
Non-profit in a financial services space cannot pay the going rate for talent in NYC-metro - pure logic.
A $73,000 salary is considered near poverty level in NYC where you can't even qualify for a studio apartment with less than a 2 hour commute from Manhattan.
The NYC region sucks. Rude, hostile, aggressive people, confiscatory cost of living. 12-14 hour workdays in most Manhattan corporation where you are required to spend $2,000 a month on clothes.
Not to mention the cost of utilities & taxes which have the highest burden in the nation.
This region has become nothing more than a sprawling huge shopping mall where you live & die by your purchases.
No middle class people are being replaced by 20 something MTV worshipping kids who somehow can spend $900,000 on a one bedroom condo and put 25% down.
Not to mention the amount spent on clothing especially that $300 'premium denim' which is SUCH a great investment...
I live in a pretty sought after neighborhood in Bergen County. I can tell you. There is a well known family here who are married first cousins..
Have you been to the Seaside Heights boardwalk lately?
Not everyone there is someone I'd like to be neighbors with
I think I can understand some of the jabs at NC and the South as a necessary defense mechanism for New Jerseyans - it has to be difficult being the butt of jokes across the nation. C'mon NJ, I can go to any state in the union and say "New Jersey" to a random person and get at least 3 jokes about this state. Get your noses out of the air. That's the one thing I cannot figure out, why so proud? I only hear the bad things, but I rarely hear anything other than proximity to NY and schools (not college level) as a good reason to be here.
Make me feel better about being stuck here, somebody. How some posts about all the great things about living in NJ.
Reasons to stay.
Family, The shore, NYC, Philly, yes the colleges, the food.
Reasons to leave.
Family, the other cool stuff somewhere else, some other city (which will never be NYC, good or bad) the colleges, the food.
I personally am looking at the southwest. This region is in decline. Its young people are dialing on because it is too expensive. I am with them, just gotta get my wife tranferred.
{{{Its young people are dialing on because it is too expensive. I am with them, just gotta get my wife tranferred}}}
No, it is just young wealthy oversheltered transplants moving to the NYC region.
From what I see, they don't look like the types who are $200,000 white collar corporate employees which is the life that they idolize.
I live in Queens and would leave in a minute. A $75,000 a year salary for a single person in this region is practically poverty and the tax & fine burden is ridiculous. $90 for not wearing a seatbelt. $65 for parking overtime at the meter which used to be 'even on Sunday'.
Oh, but of course, I don't spend $300 on Jeans, or $500 on a VIP table at a club which everyone done these days.
How some posts about all the great things about living in NJ.
being able to say "I go there all the time...my cousin lives there" when a town is mentioned on Sopranos.
I love gallows humor.
Crisis, Joke, Let's eat.
That's one thing I love about NJ.
For us yellow and brown people, it's not as easy to leave culturally diverse regions like the tri-state for places like NC where people still look at you like you're from another planet because your skin's not the right shade.
I can handle it but who wants to raise a family in that kind of environment.
NJ may be filled with rude, arrogant, snobby folks but at least they're that way with everybody.
{{{For us yellow and brown people, it's not as easy to leave culturally diverse regions like the tri-state for places like NC where people still look at you like you're from another planet because your skin's not the right shade.}}
The NYC region is one of the most racist in the country. Long Island is extrememly homophobic as well.
If you are the wrong color, you will probably want to stay out the eastern parts of Queens or most of Bergen county.
{{{For us yellow and brown people, it's not as easy to leave culturally diverse regions like the tri-state for places like NC where people still look at you like you're from another planet because your skin's not the right shade.}}
The NYC region is one of the most racist in the country. Long Island is extrememly homophobic as well.
If you are the wrong color, you will probably want to stay out the eastern parts of Queens or most of Bergen county.
NJ is a great state and NJers don't realize it until they move. While we are squeezed here by insane taxes and prices it really is an amazing place. Most people either are too busy with daily life or have their eyes closed if they do not see it. First the population is very diverse, which is a GOOD THING! Second the pace at which life moves is fast, for many people this works, for others not so much. Lets face it NJ has many areas that are very pretty. Good possibilities for recreation Jersey Shore, Skiing, Mountains, Rivers, Lakes, salt marshes. We have some of the most diverse landscape in the US. There is a very good reason for the growth experienced in this area for the past 300 yrs. The issue is the 21st century has come along and we are being left, our inept gov't and ridiculous wages diven by ridiculous real estate are painting us into a corner. The only economic development we have had in this state is residential construction. Maybe just maybe a housing crash will straighten this out.
Anonymous said...
6/15/2006 01:42:19 PM
If you are not originally from this area, then you cannot really appreciate how this area has become to be this way.
I am a Met fan, but you can probably track the recent history of the Yankees and apply it very nicely to the NYC area.
Yankees came back strong in the late 1990's, and everyone in the country jumped on the bandwagon. Now record attendance and record ticket prices. However, if you look at the innards of the team, it is cracking under the aging infrastucture and being poorly conceived. It's only a matter of time before they tear it down and start to renew.
Think about it, be foreward, and HOLD THE LINE on the complaining!!!
If you don't like it here, move!
Anonymous said...
"NJ is a great state and NJers don't realize it until they move.
6/15/2006 02:16:14 PM"
True, many entertainment and recreation opportunities here but my point is everywhere has its pluses and minuses. I love NJ, but I am being squeezed out.
Anonymous said...
The NYC region is one of the most racist in the country. Long Island is extrememly homophobic as well.
If you are the wrong color, you will probably want to stay out the eastern parts of Queens or most of Bergen county.
6/15/2006 02:15:22 PM
If you have traveled elsewhere, you would not say such a thing.
The most racist area in the Northeast is Boston - BY FAR. Also the farther you travel from salt water in general and south of the Mason Dixon line, the harder it gets.
I love Chicago, but it is so segregated that it is laughable.
Half a dozen other cities have effectively large white-only residential and business districts.
I've driven 20 minutes outside of St. Louis and been stared at becuase I so ethnic looking.
Hold the line on the NYC/NJ bashing!
((For us yellow and brown people, it's not as easy to leave culturally diverse regions like the tri-state for places like NC where people still look at you like you're from another planet because your skin's not the right shade.}}
First of all, my brother is married to an asian-american. He and his wife both say they could only live in the Northeast or the west coast.
As for NYC metro being the most racist, I don't know what metric you could use to evaluate that statement. I've seen racists everywhere.
CF,
My sister who is blond and blue eyed is married to a guy who is a jewish/irish/german mix, so he is a little like you. When travelling in some places they stared at --hard--. Strangely enough in Canada they experienced it the worst.
I meant they get stared at
many people in new jersey think
anything south of edison is no
good.
Their are many places, as a matter of fact , most places are nicer than NJ.
Its called quality of life.
The folks in North Carolina
kind of laugh at the people
from the North,, because most
dont know how to act.
you can see it on the board today.
Lets see New Jersey, other than
a few hot towns that are left and
not overun with illegals,,
what do we have.
Yeah, I'm glad I can run next door if I smell my neighbor cooking home-made Samosa.
My daughter eats greens and was mad at me because she doesn't have a nice name like the other girls in her class.
I love that about New Jersey.
Lets see New Jersey, other than
a few hot towns that are left and
not overun with illegals,,
what do we have.
sounds like you mean last remaining towns that are predominantly white. how do you know they're illegals?
well , well , we have a lib.
where they from Europe?
New Jersey is loaded with illegals,
wake on any street, yes that includes Westwood, Woodcliff Lake,
Hillsdale,Closter,Demarest,
I could continue, speak to law
enforcement,,,
a Blind man could see they are illegal, and I aint Ray Charles,
Also note that Gang activity
is on the uptick,, think they
are legals, most are Hispanic and
illegal...
Once again speak to law enforcement
its the largest problem they have
on their hands,,,,
i see, if you go thru any street and notice they're not of european descent they must be illegals.
Who let the dogs out in here?
Pat
that is correct,
by the way when going to North
Carolina,,, you have to take
lessons on how to suck on Neck
Bones,,
Its very good for the teeth,
like dogs.
I have to get back to my practice.
Geez. I didn't know the union still had their own dentists.
Pat
sad state of affairs when
towns are putting bounties
on illegal rooming houses.
and its not in Englewood,
how bout Westwood,Closter
Dumont (gone) Bergenfield (schools too), teaneck, Paramus (Paramoose)
etc.
Not to many unions left to treat
in NJ, they all killed the golden
goose, they moved, NC,Tenn,Ala.
Thats what we got the Mexican for
the jobs the americans wont dol
Housing Stocks
big rally today.
Hov, Tol, Toa, all up big.
Why? The Harvard report? One last pump and dump.
Nope,
this housing scare is over.
Time to buy , while you can.
School starts in
Sept.
Many bargins around,,price it right
and it will move. You need the right agent.
Open house,,, rent the family
it will sell.
heating bills are up,
interest rates are up,
butter is up,
oil is up,
ferry prices are up,
smokes are up,
Whats down,,, Housing??
Not in NJ,, modest slow down just takes longer to sell.
Browning shmowning, this area has long been this way the italians, the polish, the jews, the irish, etc the quote unquote undesirable people. I don't see it that way, this is all part of NJ's long tradition of immigrant neighborhoods and people working their way up. Everyone is so upset about the immigrants in my mind, immigrants made America great. These people work hard and everything you say regarding them has been said about most of families 200 years ago. Gangs are a problem but don't blame the illegals, you will find the gang members were born here and are the product of poor urban environments.
As for the racist thing, you are nuts if you think it is bad here. In other parts of the country if you had the kind of integration we have here there wouldn't just be some comments but violence. Anyway don't associate some peoples feelings to racism because most of the objections I hear from people is regarding people not culturally assimilating. There are very few other places where many of the people you know are interacial couples.
I am just relating their experiences. My Bro-in-law actually has felt like he was looked as a mixed race couple. He is very intelligent, and I don't thin he would exaggerate. BTW they have been together since 1979 so alot of years of experience.
browning?
walk the streets and watch the street walkers,,,
Alright, Anon 2:41, 2:56, 3:06, 3:25, 3:42...Whatchu sellin? C'mon fess up.
Are you Pesche?
Pat
now wait a minute,
Kara homes,,,Hovnanian,
you cant just walk into
their complex,,
you need an appointment
and the salesman will
want to know if your
qualified.
bergen county ,essex,
morris ,, demand is their
not to much of a discount of
the houses .. thats a fact.
NJgal, you may be right. Maybe Metro's brother-in-law is simply good-looking - you know how some really intelligent people are self-conscious, so they think when people stare it's bad?
For us yellow and brown people, it's not as easy to leave culturally diverse regions like the tri-state for places like NC where people still look at you like you're from another planet because your skin's not the right shade. I can handle it but who wants to raise a family in that kind of environment.
NJ may be filled with rude, arrogant, snobby folks but at least they're that way with everybody.
This is a funny comment because I was thinking exactly the same thing.
NJGal and anon,
Take a look you tell me he is Robert E. Lang.
http://www.mi.vt.edu/index.asp?page=1&id=41
Off-topic:
One of my favorite experiences. I was hanging out in Chicago about ten years ago, with my friend from Flushing who is Korean. He was visiting other friends of his that lived in Chicago as well [all Korean]. I've known this guy since second grade.
Anyway, it was a group of about seven of us, and we go to these Korean restaurants and clubs in what is "Koreatown" on the north side.
It gets to be about 2:30AM and the guys all starting saying "Karaoke!!!" -we are piss-drunk at this point- I have no idea what is going on.
So we end up going to this place and the proprietor says in Korean to everyone "why do you bring this foreigner in here!" My friend [who is the most stately, mild-mannered guy, corporate lawyer] practically reaches across the counter and beats the ---- out of this guy, but we hold him back. He defends me "I've known this guy this I was seven years old. You want my money, you let him in."
I was ROFLMAO.
The rest of the night is like some of the scenes from Lost in Translation. I was hungover for about a week.
CF,
This is why Korean food has not caught on, hostility toward non-Koreans. Although it is excellent, I was turned on to it in Atlanta of all places by some grad school asociates who were from Korea.
BTW you say He was from Queens, I'm guessing College point?
Great story thanks for sharing.
Metro, if this is not some joke of yours and it's for real, then I'm laughing my butt off about him feeling like ppl stare like he's part of a mixed race couple.
The problem is he is so "normal" that he looks like somebody on T.V. and so probably when he travels, people stare to figure out who he is.
Pat
You see, we are from here and that is normal to us. I am just sayin'.
BTW it was men in Canada not woman. And the stares were not friendly.
CF - that's what I like about NJ. Love that story.
Pat
More off-topic:
I never knew this until a few years ago.
A common couple is white-male/asian female.
This pairing REALLY incenses asian guys A LOT.
Another off-topic:
I have an south-asian Indian friend from Ohio and a Chinese friend from Michigan. For all intents and purposes they both are culturally white. However, in their towns they get stared at and treated differently. For both of them one of the most tragic experiences was going back to their ancestral countries and not being able to speak or read. It was a hollow feeling, almost as if they were nomads in a way. No place they were accepted as being home.
Chicago, tell them to move to NJ.
I don't really understand Asian guys getting upset if they see a WM/AF.
Maybe they view would it as some kind of personal or minority put-down, since the WM is still the Majority.
Pat
this is a common issue with asian americans. you're seen as a foreigner here as well as your home country. most of them are actually treated better here.
Back to North Carolina...
Be careful of the fast growing areas. My brother moved to Northern Virginia (an hour west of DC)to an area where farms were being quickly replaced with housing developments. The roads and businesses did not meet the growing population. The traffic was horrible. Everywhere you go, there were lines going out the door. Everyday was worse than Paramus at Christmas time.
Anonymous said...
Back to North Carolina...
(((Be careful of the fast growing areas. My brother moved to Northern Virginia (an hour west of DC)to an area where farms were being quickly replaced with housing developments. The roads and businesses did not meet the growing population. The traffic was horrible. Everywhere you go, there were lines going out the door. Everyday was worse than Paramus at Christmas time. ))))
Sounds like Loudon County to me. Very poorly planned and they downzoned to boot (increased lot sizes for subdivision). Your right what a mess. The tragedy is people commuting from Hagerstown MD, and Winchester WV. The problem with downzoning as a strategy for development is it leapfrogs you. In NNJ PA is our Winchester WV. It is sprawl!
What about NJ weather, people!
We don't get the snow they get in Chicago, we don't get the earthquakes they get in CA, hurricanes, tornadoes, wild fires- none of that (well, maybe hurricanes this year!)
In NJ you can spend most of your summer outside because it's not a gazillion degrees. We have seasons, too! Even the humidity isn't all that bad.
Yooz guys need perspective. I grew up south of Houston, Texas, talk about bugs, humidity, flooding, hurricanes...
I love New Jersey!
DS
New Jersey doesn't have the worst weather in the country, but it is about a 3 compared to Southern California's 10.
Yeah, but who can enjoy Manhattan or nice cuisine when you make less than $200,000 a year??? Plus, you wouldn't feel comfortable.
$100,000 isn't enough for one person even to live in Hudson county or Queens county. A single person ideally needs between $150,000 - $200,000 a year and probably couldn't even own any real estate on that yearly salary.
The metro area is a playground for the wealthy where classism & racism runs rampant. You are immediately judged by the car you are driving & what you are wearing.
$200,000 doesn't even cut it unless you are willing to eat free fast-food condiments for at least one meal a day.
I don't see how anyone making less that $300,000 can live anywhere in New Jersey or even Pensylvania unless they also have a trust fund in the billions or have a job with free housing like Mayor of New York City.
What a fuck bunch of elitist labeling snobs we have on this board. One of the reasons why I want to leave this area because you are immediately judged on the color of your skin, what you drive & what you wear.
And no, I don't know how any single person can live on less than $100,000 a year either (they can only afford to shop at Lord and Taylor with the 'Coupon')
Enjoy spending $3,000 a month for your shoebox walkup apartment, getting taxed out of the ass, and paying $6,000 a month for a mortgage payment (Interest Only) on a one bedroom condo.
anon 5:58
I wouldn't want to live in CA (earthquakes, mud slides, fire, bad schools). It's a nice place to visit.
NJ is one of the nicest year-round seasonal places to live, imo. I live in the Lake Mohawk, Sparta area & it is really beautiful up here.
& for what it's worth. We do okay at $100,000 a year. Glad we bought 12 years ago...
DS
Interesting many seem to think there's a problem with 'racial intolerance' down South, but could this thread from NJ be classified as contining pure racial harmony?
folks, if you aren't an existing homeowner you will never have a decent life in NNJ unless you make $150-$175k family income and don't want to live in a slum. i'm seeing an abundance of houses in the premium towns that say 'great starter home' for $700k. there are other places to live yes but prices are for the most part $450k and up unless you want to live conveniently located next to nothing.
This was the weirdest thread I've ever read on this blog, I think.
But I'm not feeling like there was that much elitism or snobbery.
Maybe the prospect of a streak of really hot weather coming over the next couple of days has me dazed and confused.
{{{ I know plenty of people making less than $100K (family of 3 or 4), making a nice living and enjoying their lives in NNJ.}}}
How the F*uck can you make less than 100K and 'make a nice living'??? For a family of 3 'or 4' that is just under $40,000 each (which is laughably low).
The people who I know that have a modest living by NY/NJ standards still make well over $300,000 a year and live in homes that are nothing special.
The problem is that many people are complacent and willing to stay in the same dead end white collar job paying $75,000 or $80,000 a year with 5% raises each year. Well at that wage level you will be living only about 2 hours away from midtown Manhattan and probably couldn't afford (or fit into) any of the nicer trendy restaurants or clubs in Manhattan either.
X-Underwriter said...
APPLICATION TO LIVE IN NEW JERSEY
I love that! I am a Jersey Girl and think that is a riot! Thanks for the fun :)
gsmls inventory @ 31,013
24 hr report - inventory increases by 113. That's like 4.5 houses every hour!
"gsmls inventory @ 31,013"
We should start a pool when it will hit 35,000.
I'm in for July 6th!
does anyone know how many houses in gsmls were sold in May? and how many are under contract?
May must have been an ugly month, several realtor website that publish sales data for the prior month are mute and it's already June 15th.
They usually post the data 3 or 4 days into the month.
back in the early 1980s, Mendham NJ was a nice middle class town. now it is filled with scumbag pseudo elites. they look at you like you're a low life unless you drive an '06 bmw. in fact, if you drive any car more than 10yrs old, they will call the police on you and say you look suspicious... suspicious of what... making less than 200k/yr. Now a dump in that town costs 600k. I know a guy with property taxes of 60k/yr. The entire state of NJ has gone to hell in a handbasket. Most of you don't realize it yet. But is sucks. Have fun on 206/25/80/287/24/TP/GSP/18/20/4/anyother shit road i forgot. And yes, it is the most segregated state in the nation. That has been documented. And yes it is being invaded with illegals. You have hispanic gangs moving into Morristown, and other towns like Flemington and Hackettstown.
This is a pretty funny thread but two statements have me scratching my head.
1) The claim that you can't live in NJ w/o making $200-$300k a year just made my jaw drop. You certainly can live in NJ on that salary or even significantly less. It's a matter of expectations, priorities and choice of living standards, just like anywhere else. Of course, if you have a certain lifestyle in mind, then maybe $300k won't do it, and maybe even $1MM wouldn't do it either - it depends on what you consider acceptable "living". For what it's worth, here's an excerpt from wikipedia:
"Bergen County ranks as the 21st among the highest-income counties in the United States with a per capita income of $33,638."
2) The claim that there's more racism in NY/NJ than in other parts of the country is just not true. I've traveled across the country alot and my experience is that there's less racism here than anywhere else (probably tied with San Francisco). Also, I have many non-white friends, and not a single one has ever said that there's more racism here, in fact, quite the opposite - we all agree there's less here.
-P
my oh my ,,
racism at its finest
Al Sharpton,, going to
get involved over here
ok, here we go.
Patels are at it now.
Indians in New Jersey
New Jersey the melting pot.
Iselin,another fine nj town.
Hey, stop with the knocking on the Patels.
I don't want them going anywhere.
I like the food.
Plus, I feel much safer since our neighbors finally turned my husband onto Toyotas so we could get rid of the black Buick funeral looking car.
Pat
We live in Harrington Park. Bought recently and make less then 150K.. How do we afford it. WE SAVED.. While our friends were out to dinner everyweekend. We never went on vacation. We didn't shop in expensive places and we didn't buy the new BMW.. And frankly.. I never cared about what my friends were saying (didn't you wear that last week?) .. lots of people made fun of us.. said we were cheap ect. We wouldn't have bought recently if our situation were different.. and we didn't pay 700K for a starter..If you think you need to make 300 or even 100 to live in NNJ your just not looking hard enough..
What I could do for and with my family of four with 200-300k per year! It would be a big party of a comfort zone for all. We're living just fine at much less than that, though I too can't imagine wanting to live in NNJ with a wife and two kids for less than 100k a year. It is a matter of expectations and priorities, but only so much. Less than 100k for 4 is simply a pitched experience around here.
WM
Do you guys really believe that everyone in northern NJ is making six figures?
There are many, many blue collar towns in our region where families are bringing in significantly less than $100K and they're not starving.
It's all a matter of what you consider a "need" and a "want".
Man, the baby boomers did a nice job of spoiling their kids.
jw
Yeah, but the problem is that you can't compete or looked down upon if you make less than six figures as an individual in the NYC metro area.
Everyone is judged by what they wear and what they drive.
You cannot get into any of the trendy clubs or restaurants in Manhattan unless you are wearing a $1,000 outfit (guys or girls) and willing to spend between $200 - $1,000.
This area is nothing more than a playground for the wealthy showing off all their possessions, clothes & cars.
{{Less than 100k for 4 is simply a pitched experience around here.}}
A family of 4?? Try a family of one. All these single 'under 30 somethings' living in all these condos going up in Hudson county make well over $200,000 a year..
According to the NY Times, $200,000 for a single person is the new benchmark of success in this area..
Naaaa.. Thats soo not true and why would you want to goto a place like that .. Because everyone says its where to go.. There are some excellent places to eat in NYC that aren't like that..And how would anyone know you make less then 6 figures.. Because your not wearing the latest fashion or driving the latest cars?.. Most old money people I have met..(I mean old)Do not drive the latest cars believe it or not.. and do not shop all day. They are cheaper then cheap... except when it comes to important things..
I know plenty of people making less than $100K (family of 3 or 4), making a nice living and enjoying their lives in NNJ.
When did they buy their house? That's the problem: If they bought their house 15 years ago (even 4-5 years ago) they don't need six figures salary. If they are looking for a house now (or bought in the last 2 years) they need that.
I'm not sure if $200k/year is the new benchmark but certainly more than $100k is needed in this region if you are dreaming about family and house in a semi-decent neigborhood with semi-decent schools.
What nonsense. I know several people living in these condos, and most do not make $200K a year.
Yeah, they make barely $199k.
I'm sorry but your comment does not make much sense unless you give some background information (are they making 50k, 100k or 150k?)
Oh yeah of course. When you are a white suburban male under the age of 25 you are entitled to a $200,000 a year salary by the age of 30.
I didn't know that most of these recent grads are able to convince a bank to lend them $500,000 or $600,000 for a mortgage on a condo because they 'expect their salaries' to be well over $200,000 in the very near future (because they are white males from the suburbs who graduated from expensive universities)..
I didn't know that 'expected earnings' really went into a lenders decision when they approved the mortgage. I guess you just need to be the right demographic meaning someone from the West Side of Jersey City or Newark wouldn't stand a chance in hell of getting a mortgage because their expected earnings are probably not more than $30,000 a year.
I make 80K in my crappy dead end job, own a house (albeit in Union City, purchased 4 years ago), and enjoy Manhattan tremendously even if I choose not to go to the trendy restaurants. I guess all the people on my bus (Weehawken, Jersey City, and Union City) are similarly deluded because I guarantee you they don't make 200K. Your envy of those who do make a great salary and can have all the trappings is ugly, anon, and is only going to hurt you.
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Reasons to move to Raleigh/Cary:
1. Lower property taxes.
2. lower home prices.
3. great resturants moving from the north to NC for reasons #1 and #2.
4. defined rush hour as opposed to rush hour all day long.
5. short flights to NYC and Northern NJ.
6. 2 hours to the beach and 4 hours to the mountains.
7. 8 to 12 hour drive to FL destinations.
8. if it snows, it melts before it gets dirty.
What you will find in Raleigh/Cary:
1. many people from your area.
2. very formal resturants but many casual resturants.
3. people who accept you as you are.
4. lots and lots of things to do.
5. Good colleges.
6. wonderful college sports: football, basketball and baseball.
7. The Stanley Cup
8. One of the best places to raise children per Fortune magazine.
I am a northern transplant and love this area. If you are one of those thinking about leaving NJ, send me an e-mail and I'll send you relocation information (I'm a real estate agent) beaverc@hpw.com
I was reading this blog and have to agree with most of you. Its getting harder and harder to find afordable housing without hearing gunshots. I have paid grave attention to the NJ real estate market and have come to 3 distinct areas for those of you who dont want to leave the NJ area.
1. FRENCHTOWN - Yeah its a little out of the way but you can still find a nice house. The town is right on the Delaware Water Gap and has beautiful scenery. The schools are pretty good. There also lots of good restaraunts in town and across the bridge in Bucks County [PA]. Serene, beautiful, and fun.
2. HACKETTSTOWN/BLAIRSTOWN - This town [Hackettstown] is often named a great place to live. The schools are good. If you look in a For Rent book rents are VERY affordable if your looking for a condo. Like Frenchtown this too is in a forest- nature friendly area. A BIGGGG plus is the trains NJ transit runs to NYC from here. This market is starting to become heated. I know for a fact prices are starting to rise. BLAIRSTOWN you can still afford something. I'm not sure about the schools but if you move to that area you can always send your children to Blairstown Academy if you are able too.
Last but not Least MOORESTOWN/HADDONFIELD. I know I know these towns arent THAT affordable but if you keep a close eye, there is always a HUGE deal in one of these towns. MOORESTOWN was ranked best place to live in AMERICA. Schools are TOP-NOTCH. IF your not familair these towns, they are Philadelphia suburbs and are a short 15-20minute drive from it. Cherry Hill is a cheaper atlertnative but has recently gotten somewhat overrun and pretty crowded.
P.S. All the towns mentioned are all in an under hour radius from a mall for the shopping types. And for the younger proffesinals look in For Rent books [they are free] You often see them on a sidewalks or at your local supermarkets.
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