Tuesday, April 11, 2006

Buy A Clifton Townhouse, Get A BMW

Just came across this listing on Craigslist. I've heard of this kind of thing happening out in Las Vegas or L.A., but certainly not in Clifton, N.J.

$479000 - Beautiful Townhouse w/great views and options!! @LOOK@

2 Bedrooms, 2.5 Bathrooms
2 Floors
1500 Square Feet
Beautiful townhouse in Clifton, NJ with spectacular views! House w/$30,000 in upgrades!

(A pretty standard listing so far - grim)

If you need a mortgage please let us know. We can provide you with any type of mortgage. We can work out a deal.

(Starting to get odd, the seller wants to play mortgage broker as well)

WE ALSO HAVE A 1999 BMW 528i for sale w/70k asking $15k or B/O. We can work a deal out for both. At the above price we MIGHT include the car in the garage!!

(So there you have it, possibly the first "Car Included!" deal in Clifton)

Caveat Emptor!
Grim

92 Comments:

Blogger grim said...

I'm not exactly sure why you'd want to roll that extra $15,000 into your loan balance.

Amortizing $15,000 over a 30 year loan at 6.5% means that 6 year old beamer is going to cost you over $100,000 when all is said and done.

grim

4/11/2006 11:11:00 AM  
Blogger chaoticchild said...

It reminds of the .com days when software companies lease their new employees with new BMW 3s.

Who wants a old BMW with 70k in it anyway????

CC

4/11/2006 11:11:00 AM  
Blogger RentinginNJ said...

Grim,

Is this place in the Cambridge Crossings development? There appear to be a number of listings in that development.

4/11/2006 11:18:00 AM  
Blogger Richie said...

What views could possible be spectacular in Clifton?

Any NYC views are bland, you're 18 miles away.

4/11/2006 11:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Unrealtor said...

Sounds like someone completely swamped in debt -- liquidate, liquidate!

4/11/2006 11:22:00 AM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"Amortizing $15,000 over a 30 year loan at 6.5% means that 6 year old beamer is going to cost you over $100,000 when all is said and done."

Hysterical!

4/11/2006 11:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I follow that house a while, before its price was 489K!!! http://newjersey.craigslist.org/rfs/142064089.html

4/11/2006 11:35:00 AM  
Blogger grim said...

I believe it's in Riverwalk near Nutley.

jb

4/11/2006 11:46:00 AM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

The fireplace/TV unit combo shown in the photo is the height of cheese:

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/rfs/142064089.html

Also, bottom right photo, note the place is already VACANT.

4/11/2006 11:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do NOT BUY anything.

Housing Bust!

House prices trending lower.

Multiple price reductions happening.

Booooooyaaaaaah!

BOB

4/11/2006 11:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A definate sign of desperation starting. But we are only at the initial stages of the big fall off in prices. Fireworks in July.

4/11/2006 12:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Online Home Price Poll in Bruce Springsteen’s Backyard.

I ‘m going to vote now - thumbs down!

Home prices headed up, down at Shore?

Posted by the Asbury Park Press on 04/11/06
What will happen to home prices in Monmouth and Ocean counties this year?
That’s this week’s online business poll question.

Have prices peaked or do they still have room to grow? If the do, by how much? Conversely, if you think prices are headed down, will they fall slowly or will the real estate “bubble” burst?

To record your answer, go to www.app.com and click on the Business section. Readers are invited to e-mail us their comments as well.

Direct link is:
http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=BUSINESS and it's on the right hand side.

4/11/2006 12:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

CC,
"Who wants a old BMW with 70k in it anyway????"

70k is not 'old', it's barely broken in. ;)

4/11/2006 12:43:00 PM  
Blogger pesche22 said...

poor guy,,, desperate

must be a degenerate gambler

4/11/2006 12:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

DESPERATE seller!

Be liquid and save unlike the imbeciles who are now bagholders.

Free markets work in both directions. someone usually wins another loses. This time reason wins!

4/11/2006 12:53:00 PM  
Blogger new 200 Mbps BROADBAND over POWER LINES said...

Any one here from North Dover, Toms River, NJ 08755 ???

How`s the hospital jobs supporting the Housing Bubble there ???

4/11/2006 01:02:00 PM  
Blogger Richard said...

let it rot. when it drops below $400k it might be worth another look but even then it's overpriced.

4/11/2006 02:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't waste your time even looking or bidding now. Denial is still in the minds of sellers. realtors on the other hand are starting to starve a little now so they a becoming more open to concessions.
One realtor I spoke with yesterday said things have changed..use the words night/day. Oh yeah!

4/11/2006 02:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I know the seller and his done it before. There are suckers out there especially in NJ who will pay for the car more than the house. The guy is not DESPERATE, but settled and moving out of USA for good. Tired of this BS here. His got investments...do you??
This is his 4th house in 3 years...how many have you bought and sold?? It's not a sign of bubble burst, but a good tactic to sell two things people in America want: house and a car! Smart tactic. If it does not sell he will rent it. His got offers for rent, but he would rather sell it. BTW...he paid cash for the car...can u?? Try it and see what happens to your budget.
jj

4/11/2006 02:41:00 PM  
Blogger grim said...

Just for reference:

Sales Date 10/18/2001
Sales Price $288,111

grim

4/11/2006 02:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On the topic of desperate sellers/realtors, Masuko Realty in Fort Lee has two Charlton Condos listed for sale. Not only are they obscenely overpriced (one unit asking price is $660k and was put on the market last July, a little over a year after the seller bought if for $440k), but the Realtor is lying about the square footage! Thanks to this board, I checked out the tax records and discovered that these units are 1,715 square feet, not 1,825 that is being listed. The listing agent is refusing to return my calls.

What can be done when these Realtors and sellers so blatantly lie?

4/11/2006 03:23:00 PM  
Blogger grim said...

Anyone looking for more comments on the Century 21 propaganda campaign can find them here:

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=2007947

grim

4/11/2006 03:46:00 PM  
Blogger NJGal said...

"The guy is not DESPERATE, but settled and moving out of USA for good."

If he's leaving and has no intentions of returning, he's desperate. Price reductions are also desperate. You must be him by the way you pump up this "genius."

4/11/2006 03:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You called him Genuis not me...
I saw a similar listing last year and we went to see it, but we did not like the house. The car was good. In the end, the house and the car did get sold. The interest rates were lower at that time. Some people like to get rid of things in one shot. As for Grim's 1st comment. Someone can bargain it and get both and sell the car later and make few extra bucks. I had an Acura Legend over 150k miles and still sold it! Always a sucker out there. You never know man...
sam.

4/11/2006 03:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is off topic, but Park Slope is supposedly a feeder to Montclair...maybe someone can enlighten readers on whether Montclair rivals this lunacy...

http://www.gawker.com/news/park-slope/the-park-slope-hat-spat-where-will-it-end-here-166533.php

4/11/2006 04:01:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

Is that Charlatan Condos?

4/11/2006 04:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, Charlton Condos on 15th Street in Fort Lee.

4/11/2006 04:07:00 PM  
Blogger grim said...

Just received an email from a local real estate gossip birdie. She informined me that Senator Lautenberg's family home in Montclair just hit the market.

The home is a 1929 Tudor with 8 Bedrooms and 5 1/2 Baths.
The MLS Number is 2266048, Asking Price is $3.1 Million

Picture

grim

4/11/2006 04:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another "new car included" offer on Del Forno's website (Jersey City)


Downtown JC
CONDO: 317 4TH ST, UNIT #1
Tastefully restored three bedroom--two full bathroom duplex unit in DOWNTOWN Jersey City.

Two levels of extremely large and spacious rooms at a total of 1800 square feet.
High-end amenities include:
-Oak hardwood floors
-Granite kitchen countertops
-Stainless steel appliances
-Designer fixtures and cabinetry
-Exposed brick chimney
-Walk-in closets
-Deeded off-street parking
-Outdoor deck
-Laundry room
-Central air and heat
-High ceilings
-Walk 5 minutes to the Grove St Path Train

Price Reduced!! $529,000.
Maintenance: approx $320/mo
Taxes are to be determined

Seller Includes in this Sale!! A Brand New 4 Door Sedan Honda Civic DX: Approx Value $16,000.00
Buyer's Choice: The CAR or the CASH!!!

4/11/2006 04:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

p.s.- I'd like to be the appraiser who approves the loan w/ all this extra @^&* included... hey, let's include a new car, boat, and a few weeks down in the Bahamas while we're at it

tick tick tick

4/11/2006 04:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmmm... I've been to this complex. Supposedly very convenient. My friend who lives there walks 5 minutes to get to the train station.

4/11/2006 04:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, if you can sell your old junk that's parked outside or in that garage believe me any one of you guys would do it too. Don't lie. It's a new gimmick to the real estate market. First you had the interest only loans to buy a house now you get a CAR!!! If it works great! Go for it. Let's sell. I am not sure about the JC car they go through all those pot holes and parking dents on the bumper that you see all the time. Bahamas would be nice.
sam.

4/11/2006 04:34:00 PM  
Blogger NJGal said...

I was kidding when I called him a genius.

4/11/2006 04:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A new gimmick I LAUGH!

WhO the F""" cares if the condo drops by $100K plus. I would say NO THANKS take off $125k and yes i may consider.

NOT GOING TO BE A BAGHOLDER.

Arnie

4/11/2006 04:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why don't they just offer the townhouse for a realistic price to begin with and skip the Beemer?

4/11/2006 04:40:00 PM  
Blogger pesche22 said...

poor jj denial

4/11/2006 04:41:00 PM  
Blogger r patrick said...

I saw once of those housing auction flyers they used to talk about on anotherf'edborrower ( before ths site died )at the stop and shop on 17.

Condo washington township starting at 350 balh blah the usual upgrades INSTANT EQUITY OPPORTUNITY...

I still think Fort Lee is screwed, the prices are just too crazy. 600k for a CONDO! I can move two towns over and get a whole HOUSE!

4/11/2006 05:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree bmw with 70k...just breaking in. Especially, 528i best looking models compare to the junk they have now. Not your typical chevy that's on it's last leg or tire @ 70k. I just saw a listing that said a condo for $480k. 2br's only. A condo and not even a townhouse...they should include two cars.

jj is just standing up for his friend. Like Trump said last night on The Apprentice...Lee I like your loyalty towards your friend Lee. Like Marth would say...It's a Good Thing!

Eric

4/11/2006 05:04:00 PM  
Blogger Shailesh Gala said...

Little dated, but still a good article.

Ten Signs Of A Real Estate Apocalypse

4/11/2006 05:36:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"Is that Charlatan Condos?

No, Charlton Condos on 15th Street in Fort Lee."


It was a joke. ;-)

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=charlatan

4/11/2006 05:37:00 PM  
Blogger bairen said...

Instead of a car, they should be giving away 20lbs of KY jelly for the a$$ pounding the buyer is going to take over the next few years. NJ condos and townhouses went down about 40% in the last bust. This time could be even worse.

4/11/2006 05:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree..."Don't waste your time even looking or bidding now. Denial is still in the minds of sellers."... Most sellers are completely clueless they have missed the peak. They are very much in denial and angered that they are not getting offers. I just extended my rental another year and am sitting on my $500k and actually thinking I’ll have some left in the bank by the time I decide to buy again.

4/11/2006 06:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"...they should be giving away 20lbs of KY jelly for the a$$ pounding the buyer is going to take over the next few years. NJ condos and townhouses went down about 40% in the last bust. This time could be even worse."

Housing Bust...

Booooooooyaaaaaaah!

Bob

4/11/2006 06:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice, $500K in the bank... how long did it take to save that much cash?

4/11/2006 07:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the NNJ bubble were really bursting, there would be utter panic, people would be losing jobs, and nobody would be reading this blog.

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy.

4/11/2006 07:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You got that right. People just reading and wasting time on CL. Do something else guys and gals...

4/11/2006 07:11:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"If the NNJ bubble were really bursting, there would be utter panic, people would be losing jobs, and nobody would be reading this blog."


You're right, it's perfectly normal for median home prices to be 10 times more than median salaries.

Nothing to see here, move along...

4/11/2006 07:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

jj -
If it is the guys 4th house in last 3 years, how come last sale was 2001?

4/11/2006 07:22:00 PM  
Blogger skep-tic said...

no need to hurry. buy both the car and the apt. at the repo auction in 6 months

4/11/2006 07:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hear denial....fffffiiiizzzzzzz hear that leak....

It's going down and denial is rampant. Soon the greedy fool sellers will be panicking to get out the door.

4/11/2006 07:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Poor little trolls aren't so busy managing bidding wars anymore, are they?

;-)

4/11/2006 07:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Those commissions checks must be drying up now....food stamps around the corner.

4/11/2006 07:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

These prices aren't normal, but for whatever reason, people want to pay them.

This may look like a bubble to us, but to the average buyer it still seems like a good enough value.

I'm not seeing any real sign of this changing soon. Sure, inventory is up 10%, but prices haven't budged and rents are only going up.

I'm sure some markets will correct soon but this market is still a few years from any meaningful change in price.

4/11/2006 07:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HAHAHAHA!

Yeah therealtor I spoke with 2 weeks ago in an open house said things were slow.

Of course the re industry spends 100% of their time trying to manipulate sentiment.

It's changing --it's getting negative and these crooks can't stop it now.

4/11/2006 07:35:00 PM  
Blogger grim said...

There is quite a bit on the economic calendar in the next few weeks, so there will be plenty of data to discuss. So get the schadenfreude out of your systems, because next week we get back to objective economics. :)

grim

4/11/2006 07:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

People do invest in other countries. Probably the guy has other real estates. Think outside the box for a change. Get out and see...

4/11/2006 07:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How can this be a bad market. My cousin in NC sold his house in 2 days and bought a new one...$1M. He runs a limo company...

My cousin in Parsippany sold her for over $470k and bought a house worth over $600k.

Where is the bubble?? People are getting raises and new jobs with higher salary. Do your research and the salary for new graduates have gone up and not down.

later.

4/11/2006 07:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You're right, it's perfectly normal for median home prices to be 10 times more than median salaries.

You have phenomenons like "dual income" families to thank for that one. Suddenly every NJ household makes over 100k and no respectable family can afford to make less anymore.

I hate to say this, but high housing prices are just going to be unfortunate fact of life in NJ. Even if we have a few price drops, I still think, for now, a bubble is more wishful thinking than reality.

4/11/2006 08:01:00 PM  
Blogger grim said...

Anonymous @ 8:54,

I don't mind you coming to my blog and insulting me. But if you are going to insult me by saying I didn't do my research, you better have done your own.

The next time you post a comment like that, please back it up with hard data. Cite the journal, article, website, or any other source of the data that backs your argument. Otherwise, your argument doesn't carry any weight here. Nobody will even give it a second thought.

Caveat Emptor!
grim

4/11/2006 08:15:00 PM  
Blogger grim said...

Dual incomes are not a recent invention. While I like where you are going with the idea, it doesn't explain the behavior we've seen in the past few years. The dual-income dilemma really deserves it's own discussion.

However, what has happened recently, is that without dual incomes, the likelyhood of a single earner being able to purchase a home is significantly reduced.

grim

4/11/2006 08:19:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"I'm not seeing any real sign of this changing soon. Sure, inventory is up 10%, but prices haven't budged and rents are only going up."


That's funny. If you're going to troll, at least be honest.

Inventory is at 10-year highs, in fact.

Prices are most certainly down.

My rent went up $15 this year -- a real bank breaker.

Any other ®ealtor spin you'd like to share?

4/11/2006 08:35:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"I hate to say this, but high housing prices are just going to be unfortunate fact of life in NJ. Even if we have a few price drops, I still think, for now, a bubble is more wishful thinking than reality."


Look at how much $$$ properties closed at in 2001. Nothing has changed since then, except home prices.

It's like the "Summit" discussion. People were saying it had good schools, was close to mass transit, etc. Problem is, the same was true in 2001, when houses cost 100% less.

We're in a bubble, and this madness is simply unsustainable.

4/11/2006 08:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just to correct the math for whoever said that the 15k beemer will cos 100k in 30 years at 6.5% fixed mortgage, in reality it will cost $34,131.67, not a bargian by all means .
As for the guy/gal who calims 100k dual income family is the norm, I would say be more recoucreful the mean houshold income in New Jersey is is slightly less than 50k. Household income means what that households bring in income it could be one breadwinner or most often two incomes from two breadwinners or possibly more if you add kids who stay with their parents and work. Very few towns in NJ have mean household income over 100k.

Cliffy

4/11/2006 08:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I live in Hoboken and from looking at listings and postings here it doesn't look like prices have come down at all. If anything they are still going up. A 100 year old 1000 sq. ft. duplex on my street is now for sale asking $730K. They'll probably get over $700K. You could buy the whole building for that much 5 years ago.

Inventory is up, which gives you more choices of properties to overpay on.

Finally, my lease is up soon and I'm sure it will be the maximum allowed by the city, around 5%. Unfortunatley there aren't many alternatives without spending even more.

4/11/2006 08:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If we are about to hit the bubble why are people posting high prices?? Do you think they are all stupid, Grim? My realtor called 2-3 weeks for a house that was for $515k in West Orange and sold for ~$564k. They had 20 bids. Another house in Fairfield was for $515k and sold for over the asking price. So, where is the bubble? We had a house in JC and we thought after all the renovations we did it still took 3 months to sell, but guess what...we got only $1000 less than the asking price. Always a buyer for every house. Where is the bubble?? As for this bimmer, hey the guy just wants to sell and move on. Two for one sale.

4/11/2006 09:06:00 PM  
Blogger Richie said...

At this point; the BMW will hold it's value better then the condo will.

-Richie

4/11/2006 09:26:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"My realtor called 2-3 weeks for a house that was for $515k in West Orange and sold for ~$564k. They had 20 bids. Another house in Fairfield was for $515k and sold for over the asking price. So, where is the bubble?"


LOL, "20 bids" -- whatever.

Look at houses that closed in Short Hills for March -- 95% of the deals closed under asking.

Current inventory sitting for 90+ days chief!

Pop!

4/11/2006 09:36:00 PM  
Blogger RentinginNJ said...

"Where is the bubble?? People are getting raises and new jobs with higher salary. Do your research and the salary for new graduates have gone up and not down."

Really? So salaries have kept up with housing prices? I must have been out of the office on 125% raise day. I will have to talk to my boss about that one.

4/11/2006 10:50:00 PM  
Blogger bairen said...

If we are not in a bubble, why has housing gone up 2.5 times since 2000? If real estate was such a great investment, why weren't these real estate investors buying in the late 90's when you could buy a condo or townhouse in a nice area of NJ for $80 to 100k and be cash flow positive from day 1?

There are quite a few tech and financial companies in NJ and NYC who didn't give their employees a raise for 1 or 2 years around 01 and 02, yet housing still aceelerated in price.

I heard the same denial arguments in the mid 80's before the last housing bubble burst. My parents had a neighbor in their townhouse development who bought at the peak and was underwater for 14 years. The townhouse development in North Jersey we bought peaked in the late 80's at $140k. By the 93 you could buy one for $70k. Prices didn't hit $140k again until end of 02. Same thing happened with the vacation homes at the Shore, especially the ones on the barrier islands where very few people live year round. Being upside down for 10+ years must do wonders for you marriage and health.

4/12/2006 12:38:00 AM  
Blogger grim said...

Got some competition.

Saw a FSBO listing for a similar townhouse in the same development (Riverwalk) priced $30,000 less at $449,000.

grim

4/12/2006 06:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. grim...probabaly that house nothing to offer, but plain 4 walls. Everything works on options and incentives these days. Every builder can give you 4 walls and oak cabinets. Nothing new. Plus is the seller offering a Honda civic or a bmw or a merc?? Makes a difference, right?

As for the salary, people who are complaining they did not get a raise find a new job on Monster.com. It might help. It helped me get a $22k raise.

4/12/2006 08:01:00 AM  
Blogger grim said...

Looking at the pictures, the units are both very similar.

Or, rather, they both have granite countertops and stainless appliances.

That difference of $30k can buy a Viking range, Subzero fridge, a plasma tv in the bathroom, a brand new Honda Civic, and maybe a Marvel wine chiller if you bargain shop.

Or, just maybe, the buyer would rather spend $30,000 less, regardless of the 'upgrades'.

grim

4/12/2006 08:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are still in your denial mode. Sure they look alike, but do they feel the same when you move in. Is the house next to another house or a brick wall or a garbage dump or a 'dog bark'. Many people in our communities were not happy when they found out that they were next to the dog bark and everyone came by to have their dogs do their thing. Imagine this site when you are having your dinnner, especially with friends. Not a pretty site. You want to pay $30k more for that?? Think b4 you write. Everyone has reasons for their prices. My friend in Nutley could not sell his house because his unit was smack in the middle. So, to sell he priced it low and after 2 months it did sell. If you have the end unit, you price it higher. Reasons - more windows, more parking, no house next to you, etc. We do our barbacue in the garage because we have no patio. You want to pay me $30k more?? I will take it!

People like you go around telling everyone that the bubble is around the corner. Put some positive things for NJ since so many negative is already out there.

As for real estate in general...the best investment you can have.

Zack

4/12/2006 08:44:00 AM  
Blogger bairen said...

Zack I would gladly pay $30k more to ensure my next door neighbor doesn't BBQ in the GARAGE!!! Can you say fire hazard? I hope you also don't own an outdoor deep fryer.

4/12/2006 09:17:00 AM  
Blogger grim said...

Aren't there homeowner association rules against barbequing in your driveway?

Zack, the arguments you make support purchasing a single family home more than they do purchasing a condo or townhouse. What is to stop a big barking dog from moving in next door to an end unit?

Wouldn't a middle unit surrounded by quiet long-term neighbors be preferrable to an end-unit next door to 3 screaming kids and a pack of dogs?

The issue you bring up is that unless you own the units next door, you risk having problems with your neighbors. While an end-unit has less probability of that happening, it's anything but eliminated.

And one last thing. Let the buyers decide if buying real estate right now is the best investment they'll ever make. I hope they'll trust their own decisions over an anonymous proclaimer.

grim

4/12/2006 09:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You should really get out into these homes and see for yourself. Especially, the ones that have small tiny garages and no patio. I have seen people in JC and in Edison and other places barbacue because their units do not have a patio. Sorry, they have one but it's the one in their MBR which can hold only 4-5 people. So, if you get the bigger unit or the one that has option where you can actually have a patio than you can price it a bit higher.

As for investments, think about it for a minute. Do you really think that real estate is one of the worst investments? Hey, if you can not afford it than get out of the market and stay in your 1 BR apartment. We bought our 1st condo, a Foreclosure and almost doubled it in 2 years...without any improvements! We saw the condo with a flashlight and signed the contract. if you don't have the guts to compete than get out and stay home. Let others buy.

This market is not for people to critcize but act have the have the guts and money and connections. Because we bought a foreclosure my 3 friends got out of their 1 BR apartment and finally bought a house. They thanked us and now each one has bought their 2nd home already in 3 years. Where's the bubble?? Everything in life goes up and down, but real estate always stay on a solid ground.
Zack.

4/12/2006 09:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just saw this site and have few comments.

As for the price on this and other houses that are over priced I think they do it because they know that everyone will negotiate.

For example, if the same house was listed with an agent at 6% what's the commission...~$28k!!! If listed with YHD @ 3% the comm. is ~$14k. So, why not price it a bit high and since there is no commission no matter what the price is listed a bit high. Posting on CL or at FSBO sites means no comm. to give to the realtor and you keep all the proceeds no matter what the price. It could be $430k or $460k or $479k. You need some negotiating gap, right?

It's all how you market your house. You just have to beat the others and make your house stand out...even if you don't need that car anymore. Someone might want both.

Enough on this...

KP

4/12/2006 10:14:00 AM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"I heard the same denial arguments in the mid 80's before the last housing bubble burst. My parents had a neighbor in their townhouse development who bought at the peak and was underwater for 14 years. The townhouse development in North Jersey we bought peaked in the late 80's at $140k. By the 93 you could buy one for $70k. Prices didn't hit $140k again until end of 02. ... Being upside down for 10+ years must do wonders for you marriage and health."


Brutal. What a nightmare.

Similarly, a colleague of mine bought a townhouse in the late 1980s, and had to sell it in 1993/94 for over $100K LOSS.

Can you imagine trying to recover from a $100K loss? That would hurt most people for a decade or more, and they'll never be in as good shape if they hadn't lost that money.

4/12/2006 10:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's just one house. It could be the location, total sf, options, improvements, school system, etc. So many factors involved. You can't win all the time. That's life. Make it up in the next one. Maybe his/her luck is not in real estate.

Anyway, good luck...

4/12/2006 10:30:00 AM  
Blogger bairen said...

Zack many of those condos, townhomes, and Single family ranches in the Edison area were going for 100 to $110k back in 99 and 2000. Most of them were disgusting/ borderline knockdown jobs infested with mullet wearing Beavis and Butthead lookalikes. Yet 6 years later they are suddenly worth $250 to $300k. I don't think so.

4/12/2006 10:36:00 AM  
Anonymous trroll said...

Zack,

“…We bought our 1st condo, a Foreclosure and almost doubled it in 2 years...without any improvements!”

Hmmm, you bought it and sold it w/o any improvements and it was foreclosure. Well, I bought my hose as a VA foreclosure and even thought it was in a decent shape I still had to invest about $20K to fix it (and my father in-law is a contractor who fixed the house for us – other wise it would cost us additional $30K). Please, do not try to sell this crap here – I search for a house for over year and half (mostly due to my wife’s nagging) and each foreclosure we visited needed at least $20-50K in repairs. One thing to remember, foreclosures are risky as you only have few hours to check them and you can’t get inspections before putting a bit. Higher risk – higher reword.

As to guts. Well, we also own 6 family house and are planning to buy at least two more 4 family homes. But not in these prices. I want to have a positive cash flow and you can’t have with those prices. I can understand you anger – you’ve have been trying to sell you home/townhouse for quite a while (even though you claim it’s your friends – I doubt there is anybody here who really believes that) and it’s been sitting on the market not selling. Bummer.

But please, do not insult people visiting this blogg with remarks like that one “Everything in life goes up and down, but real estate always stay on a solid ground.” – apparently you can write but can you read? If so, please do some research on last two bubbles and real estate in general and you will see that house market – though not as volatile as the stock market – is not immune from serious market correction – err go: it can and does crashes.

4/12/2006 10:41:00 AM  
Blogger grim said...

Just about everyone that purchased in the late 80's was underwater for much of the early 90's, some shorter, some longer. There were plenty of foreclosures, homes couldn't even be auctioned let alone sold, many lost homes, some were ruined. It was just plain ugly.

Instead of learning from what happens in these types of market manias in order to prevent them, we embraced them as good fortune.

So fast forward to today. Debt suddenly became mistaken for wealth. The slavery of debt became mistaken for the freedom of ownership. Ignorance of macroeconomic and world factors became mistaken for the strength of our own markets.

grim

4/12/2006 10:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As for the foreclosure...honestly we did not do any improvements. the guy was unable to make payments and it just came on the market...right time and right place! In our case it was location, location, location! All we did was clean the carpets few times and paint. We had 4 offers in 1 day and signed the contract at mid-night. Hey, it's luck.

Everything crashes, but it will rebound. Just have to stay on top of the waves and ride it. If people can't handle it than it's just too bad.

As for those houses in Edison, they are going almost twice as much.

Lastly, for those houses priced a bit below than others, it just depends when they bought it. Meaning, if you know how builders work they have sections/sectors and when they start and you get in early you buy it for it for $100k less than the last buyer who paid $100k more. Now, the last buyers price will reflect that in his sale price to make-up. If it sells at that price good for him. In my friends community the 1st house was sold for ~$160k and the last house was sold for ~$465k three years later! See what I mean.

As for foreclosures, if you can't handle it don't bother investing at all. Let others do what they are good at. If you con't believe me it's my friend hey no hurt feelings man.

As for your wife's nagging can't help you there either.

4/12/2006 10:59:00 AM  
Blogger bairen said...

Zack, I think you are missing our point about the housing bubble. Housing historically appreciates at inflation plus 1%. Now houses are doubling and tripling their prices in 3 to 5 years. It looks like a bubble, tastes like a bubble. I'm glad I didn't step init.

4/12/2006 11:09:00 AM  
Blogger skep-tic said...

ok, even people who put all of their money in stock on the eve of the 1929 crash would have made money if they'd been willing/able to leave their money there for 25 yrs.

the question for all of these savvy real estate investors of the past few years out there is: do you have the funds/fortitude to ride out a severe, decade+ downturn in real estate? because that is what is looking you in the face right now.

will the idea that your condo MIGHT be worth more 25 yrs from now console you while you have negative cash flow month after month for years on end?

will the bank that financed this "investment" care about the very long term upward trend in real estate when you are underwater on your loan and can't make payments? if so, I'd like to ask this bank for a loan right now.

4/12/2006 11:30:00 AM  
Anonymous trroll said...

Zack,

“As for foreclosures, if you can't handle it don't bother investing at all. “

A correction: I’m not sure if you read what I wrote but I believe if you check it again you would fide – I bought foreclosure. The point I was making was – foreclosures are risky hence the bigger reword (as for government foreclosures – there are two – VA & HUD – with VA homes you can buy as many as you want – though there are only few on market right now – and they are crap – as for HUD you can only buy 1 home every two years (and you can’t sell it for 1 year) so I do not care how good you are in it – you are not going to make a fortune there). When it comes to regular foreclosures – well you can’t buy it with the “flash light” unless you want to get shot by the owner for trespassing (people tend to be very itchy when they are about to loose their life savings – and we are going to see a lot of these within next 2-3 years).

So, good luck on your investments. I’m afraid you are not going to make as much money in next year or two as you think from foreclosures but good luck any way. The time of speculators is up and it’s going to take few years for things to start coming up again. But if you can find some bargains in next 2-3 years and hold on to them – you will definitely make money on the rebound.

As to my wife’s nagging – well, I did not ask for you help on that one. I believe it was a nesting instinct and I can understand it to some degree – though I still think it’s irrational one.

4/12/2006 11:33:00 AM  
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