Tuesday, April 04, 2006

Chasing Jerseyans Away

This piece by Senator Anthony Bucco appears in this mornings Asbury Park Press:

Corzine budget will help chase New Jerseyans away

New Jersey is fast becoming unaffordable, and Gov. Corzine's budget plan will only hasten the process.

Forty-seven states enjoy surpluses in their treasuries. Yet, New Jersey has a $4.5 billion deficit. Two other states that have deficits, Louisiana and Mississippi, were hard hit by hurricanes Katrina and Rita. With their current deficits, these two states have not raised their property taxes.
...
To the citizens who still remain and would like to continue to call New Jersey home: Are you truly better off today than you were four years ago?

Our residents, especially senior citizens and young families, are being taxed out of their homes and communities. During the last four years, local property taxes have gone up 25 percent, and 33 state taxes have been raised, forcing New Jersey residents to send an additional $10 billion to Trenton.
...
This scenario may seem like fiction, or partisan fear-mongering, but recent trends show it's becoming reality. From July 1, 2004, to July 1, 2005, we had a record net loss of 57,000 taxpaying residents — an increase of more than 100 percent from 2002.

Overwhelmingly, residents are fleeing our high cost of living. These are people who pay far more in taxes than they are getting in services. Senior citizens and young families aside, this stampede of middle-class professionals leaving the state will endanger our long-term viability.
...
A 2005 New Jersey Business and Industry Association survey showed New Jersey's business-favorable ratings have fallen or stagnated for five consecutive years. Only 28 percent of the survey's respondents believe this is a good place for business expansion. That's down from 50 percent in 2001.

New Jersey also has one of the worst records in the nation when it comes to business tax policy. A recently published Tax Foundation report shows New Jersey is ranked 49th out of 50 states in the Tax Foundation's 2006 Business Tax Climate Index.
...
During the last four years, business owners and managers have seen their state tax bills increase $3.2 billion. This must stop if we want to grow jobs and improve the economic outlook for New Jersey families.

Caveat Emptor!
Grim

57 Comments:

Blogger Metroplexual said...

I am not surprised. I used to work in site location for corporations. OUr firm would not locate anything in NJ intentionally. BTW we were based in NJ. BUsiness climate here sucks and most governors keep raising taxes on businesses. Is it any wonder we are losing good jobs?

4/04/2006 06:28:00 AM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

$100,000 price drop:
MLS 2214031
19 Midland Terrace, Summit
$849,000 => $749,000
Days on Market: 147+

4/04/2006 07:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

47 states have budget surpluses and NJ is in a deficit. Is there ANYTHING good about this state besides being close to NY? Run! Run west and south! If family is not tying you down, why the heck are you staying here?!?

4/04/2006 08:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The reason businesses leave NJ is due to the high cost of doing business here. It's no surprise that there the State's manufacturing base has dwindled.

Overall, NJ is overrated. The cost of living here is a joke, taxes (income, sales, use and property)are out of control, real estate prices are even worse. Traffic and overcrowding - thanks to McGreevey's answer to suburban sprawl is choking our highways.

If I didn't have so many family members in NJ, I would have moved years ago.

Also, the proposed increase in the sales tax rate sounds like the echoes of the Florio administration and we all know his fate; he's the only one-term governor in NJ history.

4/04/2006 08:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sad to say NJ is a joke,including our government.

If I didnt have family here i would not think twice about leaving.

4/04/2006 08:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its all about the family ties in NJ, that's why we stay too!

4/04/2006 09:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

unrealtor appreciate the mls updates but can you put things into perspective and show what the house sold for in past if possible?

$100K means nothing to me if if was selling for $400k 5 years ago.

4/04/2006 09:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For example compound out at 5% over 5 or 10 years.

Lets say a house sold for $275k in 1995 so 10 years later the house should be worth
After 5 years 5% compounded $345k
After 10 years $440k That's today. Not the $700-$800k they are asking today!

4/04/2006 09:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I grew up in both the midwest and the south and experienced the boring, dumbed down culture and abysmal educational standards there. I'm more than willing to shell out my extra tax money to live somewhere civilized.

4/04/2006 09:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The south and the midwest are "uncivilized?" I'll tell you what's uncivilized. Millions upon millions of rude animals living on top of one another scraping to pay obscene taxes, fight through overcrowded highways and afford living expenses just to say they live close to NYC while BRAGGING about it! Ha, if that's what makes you happy, then keep it. But calling the South and the Midwest uncivilized without any justification is ridiculous.

4/04/2006 09:37:00 AM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"unrealtor appreciate the mls updates but can you put things into perspective and show what the house sold for in past if possible?"

A great many houses close to NY City are older, and have owners that have lived there for many years.

But hey, you're complaining about free information? :-) Plug that address into Zillow and see if anything comes up.


"$100K means nothing to me if if was selling for $400k 5 years ago."

A $100K reduction means that buyers have called this idiot on his outrageous asking price. What the house sold for 5 years ago isn't terribly relevant in 2006, unless you have a time machine.

4/04/2006 10:06:00 AM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

I'd take the "uncivilized" South over the smell of rotting garbage on the sidewalks of Hoboken, while your patio overlooks a gas station parking lot, any day.

Only a snob would dismiss half the country as "uncivilized."

4/04/2006 10:09:00 AM  
Blogger grim said...

Civilization extends far past the borders of our fine state. In fact, civilization extends far past the borders of our own country. There is a whole world out there. And let me tell you, there are a whole lot of very nice places to live.

grim

4/04/2006 10:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Union City property taxes rose up to 26% last year.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9503E3DD1431F932A25751C0A9679C8B63

Nuff said! I can't even buy in a bad town in Hudson County anymore!

4/04/2006 10:40:00 AM  
Blogger chaoticchild said...

UnRealtor said...
$100,000 price drop:
MLS 2214031
19 Midland Terrace, Summit
$849,000 => $749,000
Days on Market: 147+


We went to the open house for this last summer. (probably August can't remember). It was listed in mid 900's back then. I have to tell you it's old and nasty. The worst part there is an elevator in the house (the previous owner was disabled.) It is so out of place. It is just old and ugly. There is no 4th bedroom. The 4th bedroom is a stinky attic, and the attic was never inhabited. It was just moist and nasty up there. Everything is almost 30 years old (bathroom and kitchen). And one of the bathroom was converted for disabled, it was kind of weird.

The realtor back then suggested the house could be have for mid 3k a month with the help of his mortgage broker. Humm.........

Anyway, I do agree with Richie who posts regularly. Nice houses priced correctly are selling quick in Summit. 2 houses right to this house was listed in Mid 800k a few months ago (probably Nov or Dec), it's 3bd and 1.5bath. The house above has 2 full bath. I never went to see this house but it was went under contract within a month.


CC

4/04/2006 10:55:00 AM  
Blogger RentinginNJ said...

"I grew up in both the midwest and the south and experienced the boring, dumbed down culture and abysmal educational standards there."

This is the kind of bias that keeps many people from leaving NJ. For some reason, many people here think that everything outside NJ is a cultural wasteland. Yes, there are areas like this, but NJ has its own bad areas too. Most people that I know who have left have been very happy with their decision.

The truth is that many fist time buyers can’t afford to get into many of the more desirable towns. So, where does that leave us? Should I struggle to live in a second or third tier NJ town or move to an affordable first-rate town in another state?

4/04/2006 10:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Only a snob would dismiss half the country as "uncivilized.""

NASCAR, illiteracy, fundamentalist Christianity and pork rinds aren't my thing. If that makes me a snob, so be it.

4/04/2006 10:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

mmm.. pork rinds.

4/04/2006 11:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is a terrible article. The state's problem started in the mid-1990s, with Whitman and her income tax cut, and the rest of that supply-side nonsense. Corzine is proposing more cuts than tax hikes, and the state's tax effort-the key measure--is on par with most of the other big states.

4/04/2006 11:16:00 AM  
Blogger RentinginNJ said...

“If I didn't have so many family members in NJ, I would have moved years ago.”

No question about it, this is the hardest part. It’s also the biggest area of friction between my wife and I. I say that we will do our best to stay, rent and save in the meantime, but if conditions don’t improve over the next 18 – 24 months, we will need to look elsewhere. My wife says she doesn’t care she wants to stay at all costs.

4/04/2006 11:20:00 AM  
Blogger lisoosh said...

No point in blaming Corzine for decades of fiscal mismanagement.

4/04/2006 11:36:00 AM  
Blogger Grim Ghost said...


47 states have budget surpluses and NJ is in a deficit. Is there ANYTHING good about this state besides being close to NY?

Like I said before, part of this is because people who work in NYC pay almost NJ taxes on NY wage income. So NY has a surplus, NJ a deficit.

Closeness to NYC (and in the South, to Philadelphia) is undoubtedly a major reason for staying in the state. In my case, I would have to take a 50-60% pay cut to move unless I moved to California, where home prices are even higher.

And the cultural facilities of NYC are also undeniable. Oh, every town has its own cultural attractions, but lets face it -- most don't compare to NYC.


Also, the proposed increase in the sales tax rate sounds like the echoes of the Florio administration and we all know his fate; he's the only one-term governor in NJ history.


Maybe it would have been better if he had stayed. Instead, we had 2 governors (Whitman and McGreevey) who both raided the pension fund, borrowed money and spent. Corzine is at least trying to come to grips with this fiscal irresponsibility. Although I do think he needs to cut more spending, some sort of tax increase is inevitable given the raided pension fund and the money owed by the state. S&P increased the bond rating for the state after the budget was indtroduced.

Really, it seems like we all -- state government, citizens, federal government etc. all want to just run up huge debts and rely on "continued appreciation" to bail us out.

4/04/2006 11:37:00 AM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"NASCAR, illiteracy, fundamentalist Christianity and pork rinds aren't my thing. If that makes me a snob, so be it."

QED

4/04/2006 11:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

grim ghost,

just my opinion... but if this governor was serious, he would re-negiotate all union contracts... this is the real issue of the spending budget.

4/04/2006 12:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Given the fact that unions (and mob if you insist they are separate) run NJ this will never happen. Everybody knows that current socialist union contracts are unsustainable but there is nothing you can do..except move to a different state.

4/04/2006 01:04:00 PM  
Blogger delford said...

What is killing NJ, is the use of property taxes to fund the schools.

As well you have the court mandated Abbott districts, which are bleeding the surburban districts dry. What is killing NJ are thes undunded mandates whether on the state level (Abbott), or the Federal level (No Child Left Behind)

What is sad is that with all the money spent on the Abotts in the last ten years, the improvement in test scores etc. has been minimal.

Blame your activist unelected judges, so mucg for democracy.

4/04/2006 01:05:00 PM  
Blogger delford said...

Again this fixation with NYC, the over whelming majority of people in NJ, work in NJ.

As far as being close to NYC, most people I know who live in NJ, rarely go there for Broadway, and all the rest.

Many many people in NJ, have a love hate relationship with people from NY, they believe that there is an unending supply of them who will continue to pay crazy prices and property taxes to live there, but at the same time accuse them of changing the character of their towns, and my favorite of bad driving.

4/04/2006 01:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The governor can do many things, concerning new contracts with the union... he can make them pay a small percentage for healthcare benefits as well as raise the retirement age... it's happening over in NYC with the MTA... it can happen in NJ too.

4/04/2006 02:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the governor can only ask for changes in union contracts when they come up for renegotiation.

4/04/2006 02:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 3:27,

Maybe... but, as the governor is claiming, there is a financial crisis at hand. What other excuse or possible reason does one need to renegotiate union contracts?

4/04/2006 02:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 2:04 pm agree completely! If you ever wanna barf...go to a political dinner (fundraiser) and see the characters that make up the room...Genetic Hucksters!

4/04/2006 02:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Genetic Hucksters; empty suit, crumb grabbing, thieves...birds of a feather...

4/04/2006 03:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pardon, their is 1 other type usually young (sometimes older, really sad)...puppies with stars in their eyes for the politician that is scamming the cash to further his/her socialist agenda.

4/04/2006 03:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No need to change leadership in NJ. Things are great here, maybe tax rate is too low but this can be fixed. "Bush is incompetent" so we must re-elect people from the union controlled democratic party so we can continue the good work in NJ!

Anyway, there is no way out of this misery except moving out. Even if republicans or some 3rd party get 100% of votes in NJ there is still the unelected fundamentalist mullah body (eh, I mean ultra-secular judges) overruling the decisions made by the elected officials. See Iran for further similarities.

4/04/2006 03:11:00 PM  
Blogger NJREFUGEE said...

I'm a former NJ resident that's been chased away, but I didn't go that far. I just went 70 miles out on route 78 to the Lehigh Valley in PA. There are quite a few other former New Jerseyeans that live out this way. As a matter of fact, the rush out this way began in 2003-2004 so it's a recent phenonmenon. R/E taxes and housing is at least 50% of what it would cost in NJ--and this is after a 20-30% runup in real estate prices over the past couple of years. It takes me an hour to reach Essex county, 1.5 hours to reach NYC and about an 1.0 hour to Philly. Actually the commute to NYC is better than going into Philly, which is closer.

People sometimes look at me like I have two heads when I say I moved to PA. It is not a cultural wasteland.

NJ is in bad shape and is going to lose many residents over the next few years.

4/04/2006 05:03:00 PM  
Blogger NJREFUGEE said...

From Delford>>What is killing NJ, is the use of property taxes to fund the schools<<<<

Hi Delford,

I always felt that everyone wanting home rule played a lot into taxes as well. To large extent, we have the same situation in PA in that we get hit with county, township and school tax bills just like NJ. They just happen to be a lot less, although folks are definitely complaining.

I have a 2700 square foot newly built home in a town that has a very good school system. I'm paying about 4500 a year for all the taxes. That's high for here but represents what I used to pay on a home I owned in Essex county 17 years ago. It just goes to show how bad things have gotten in NJ.

4/04/2006 05:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It takes me an hour to reach Essex county, 1.5 hours to reach NYC and about an 1.0 hour to Philly."

Wow, 3 hours a day commuting -- that's brutal if you work in NY City.

4/04/2006 08:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is the kind of bias that keeps many people from leaving NJ. For some reason, many people here think that everything outside NJ is a cultural wasteland. Yes, there are areas like this, but NJ has its own bad areas too. Most people that I know who have left have been very happy with their decision.

The truth is that many fist time buyers can’t afford to get into many of the more desirable towns. So, where does that leave us? Should I struggle to live in a second or third tier NJ town or move to an affordable first-rate town in another state?

Amen to Rentinnj.

There is no deals for first time homebuyers as such as myself unless I live in a not so diserable area with high taxes. Please that is NOT what I want to do. Gheesh what's a woman to do??? (smile)

4/04/2006 09:23:00 PM  
Blogger Roadtripboy said...

At the risk of being labeled a "flip-flopper" because of my posts on taxes elsewhere on this blog, I'm going out on a limb here by stating that I think $12,000/year property taxes in towns like Summit are obscene! I don't generally have a problem with taxes since living in the kind of community many of us want costs money (parks, roads, public services, etc.). But if you think about $12,000/year property taxes---once you pay off your mortgage, you still have to pay this $1000 per month to the city (or county or township, etc.). Under these circumstances, can a homeowner really claim to "own" their home? Or are they just renting it from the city (or county or township, etc.)?

4/04/2006 10:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Roadtripboy

My thoughts exactly...how about the dummies in leftywood (englewood) NJ they pay (at least on the "East Hill") in 90%+ of the assesments over $25,000 a year in property taxes, many home "owners" paying $30 -$45,000 a year with a handful paying...are you ready $100 -$240,000 a year in property taxes!!! School system ranks at bottom percentile in the state...right along with places like Camden etc. Are these people stupid or what? Yes a handful have so much money they use the excellent private schools in the area. Even if you make $1m a year in income do you really want to pay those property taxes?...year in and year out. At $400,000 income, your just getting by.

4/05/2006 12:36:00 AM  
Blogger delford said...

njrefugee: Hey hows it going, I assume you the same njrefugee from nj.com. I do not visit there any more, as all of my posts get pulled, I guess saynomo is the man with the pull there.

Lots of people relocating to Pa fom no Jersey, and also to Rockland Co NY, Although Rockland is not cheap, tax wise it is ceratinly a bargain compared to some BC towns.

In my town now, small splits and colonials are averaging 10K a year. We just approved a school expansion, but have no ratables to pay for it. People are asleep in our state. It is truly amazing.

4/05/2006 08:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Also, the proposed increase in the sales tax rate sounds like the echoes of the Florio administration and we all know his fate; he's the only one-term governor in NJ history."

Yes, but dont forget he was oh-so close to being reelected - just three years after the "impeach Florio" bumper stickers. Dont ever underestimate the short memories of voters. Its why taxes are always raised in the first term. Politicians count on it, and we accomodate.

4/05/2006 08:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"NASCAR, illiteracy, fundamentalist Christianity and pork rinds aren't my thing. If that makes me a snob, so be it."

This statement is so short sighted and ignorant, I have trouble even saying it. No at all unlike someone from the deep south saying - "gangs, drugs, traffic, overcrowding, orthodox Jews, and sushi arent my things".

4/05/2006 08:26:00 AM  
Blogger NJREFUGEE said...

>>>Wow, 3 hours a day commuting -- that's brutal if you work in NY City<<<<

No more brutal that commuting from Long Island into the city. There are buses that go from my areas into certain points in NYC, so most communters into NY don't necessarily drive it. The choice is between being real close and having a brutal financial situation or being further out and having a longer commute. A number of folks have decided that they have enough of brutality on their checkbooks!

Living here works very well for me. Since I'm self employed, I control my own schedule and I'm in NJ/NY fairly often on business. So the commute for me is a nice break in routine since I don't do it every day. At one point I was doing it everyday and it was a flat hour to get to the office. I've spent that much time on the GSP getting from Montclair to Maplewood, which are only 15 miles apart!

4/05/2006 09:22:00 AM  
Blogger NJREFUGEE said...

From Delford >>I do not visit there any more, as all of my posts get pulled, I guess saynomo is the man with the pull there.

Lots of people relocating to Pa fom no Jersey, and also to Rockland Co NY, Although Rockland is not cheap, tax wise it is ceratinly a bargain compared to some BC towns.

In my town now, small splits and colonials are averaging 10K a year. We just approved a school expansion, but have no ratables to pay for it.<<<<<

SayNoMo is an idiot and apparently is either the forum monitor over there or greatly influences the monitor. I've stopped posting over there as well.

I've always thought that regionalization of services would be a solution for property tax problems in NJ. With everyone having home rule, there's got to be some duplication in services and effort. I think that an reorganization like that means that folks lose power and budgets which may be a reason why this hasn't been explored. Of course, that assumes that efficiencies of scale are obtained by regionalization, however, with government that presumption may not hold.

4/05/2006 09:32:00 AM  
Blogger delford said...

NJ: reginalization ahs to be at least tried. IN BC we have seventy police departments, with seventy police chiefs.

The police will say regionalization will destroy towns, and crime will increase etc, but I jut do not believe it.

People in NJ supposely love their home rule, but at the end of the day towns have little say in what they can do, the state and or the Fed can over rule it. And of course the all powerful unelected judges.

The real reason people want home rule is to brag my town is better than yours, it is a way for them to keep theri exclusivity. What a joke.

4/05/2006 11:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Delford - the problem isn't the concept of property taxes to pay for schools, it's these ridiculous little school districts, some are so small they don't even have schools, but they still manage to have expensive administrators and supervisors.

4/05/2006 01:42:00 PM  
Blogger delford said...

anoymous: Yes the small school districts are part of the blame, but we are one of the few states that relies almost exclusively on property taxes to fund our schools.

Plus the huge unfunded mandates from both the state and the Fed, and of course the un-elected Judges.

Just look at the cost of special ed in most towns, it is huge and growing. Then throw in the top heavy administration, and multiple superintendents from all these small towns. After that throw in the police, and the all the rest, and that is why taxes are so high in NJ. We used to be much more reaosnable than the surrounding NYC metro area, but that is no longer the case.

The uber bulls will counsel that buying makes sense, because eventually you will own it, and its yours free and clear etc. Well there are many seniors today who own free and clear and they are paying 10K or more for the privledge of living in their paid for house. What will that number look like in say another 10 or 20 years.

NJ is in serious trouble, it is time our lazy and apathetic inhbitants started to wake up.

4/05/2006 02:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Civilization extends far past the borders of our fine state. In fact, civilization extends far past the borders of our own country. There is a whole world out there. And let me tell you, there are a whole lot of very nice places to live.

I don't believe this. This has gone from an anti bubble blog to an anti NJ blog.
Yes, if civilization for your is best chili contests and associating with people who have not, in fact, explored civilization beyond the borders of our own country, then move to the South or to the Midwest (save Chicago).
Or if you'd like to leave the country and move to, say, France where there is a 22% unemployment rate amongst those younger than 26, that's fine too.

Otherwise, stay in NJ. There are many wealthy people in this state who can afford to live here. And with the anticipated inheritance windfall in the years ahead, they will get only wealthier.

4/06/2006 12:50:00 AM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

"if civilization for your [sic] is best chili contests and associating with people who have not, in fact, explored civilization beyond the borders of our own country, then move to the South or to the Midwest"


What narrow-minded snobbery.

4/06/2006 12:12:00 PM  
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4/06/2006 11:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Being born in NY and then living in NJ for over 30 years I've had enough, selling my home and i'm moving west.

If i want NYC "culture" i'll be able to afford an airline ticket and come back.

4/07/2006 06:47:00 AM  
Blogger NJREFUGEE said...

The whole thing about "culture" is really a function of perspective. I'll admit that I enjoy the sophistication of the people of NYC and NNJ, but I simply don't enjoy it enough to pay a large premium in terms of housing costs just to be close contact with it. Like anonymous says, I figure I'll go ala carte and just pay for it when I want it. A couple of trips a year to NYC to see a play or go to a museum is just fine. A few forays into NNJ is just fine. I don't need to pay for it everyday.

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4/11/2006 01:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have heard rumors of a Corzine out of state relocation tax that would tax you on selling your home in NJ and moving out of state. Does anyone know if this is true ? Details ?

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