Monday, July 24, 2006

High Taxes May Force Some To Leave

From the APP:

Readers say taxes may force them to leave N.J.

Nearly three-quarters of those participating in an online poll say that high taxes and a shaky economy might force them out of the state.

"Are you considering leaving New Jersey because of high taxes and the state's uncertain economic future?" was the question posed last week on the Web site of the Asbury Park Press, www.app.com.

Of 3,577 taking part, 74 percent said yes, while 26 percent answered no.

36 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The exodus has already begun.

The NJ cities are going downhill
in a hurry.

The costs are out of control
and most residents are blind to
it.

7/24/2006 06:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes all the boomers are going
to buy 900k over 55 units.

Are you crazy.

But not according to all the ad's
you read.
Spend 900k , NJ and you perfect
together.

7/24/2006 06:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Time for another media lesson.

While these polls may capture a certain zeitgeist, they really don't indicate anything.

First, respondents to an online polls are self-selected so they invariably skew toward conventional wisdom, or can be targeted by a subset of respondents (the people who read this blog are far more concerned and aware of tax/economy/housing issues than most and are now aware of the poll; if even a small percentage of them go there to add their two cents, the results skew further from any accurate measure of what the typical NJ resident is thinking.

The other problem is the question. High taxes... uncertain economy are two very distinct and separate things, you can't be clear on what people are actually responding too.

To be honest, most "legitimate" polls have very problematic questions too, though usually not this blatant.

7/24/2006 07:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sorry, forgot to sign that media lesson post.

Lindsey

7/24/2006 07:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No "media lesson" needed; from the article: "The poll has no scientific validity and is representative only of those who participate."

The point was that 75% of respondents are "considering leaving New Jersey" (the specific variation on "because NJ sucks" is a lesser point).

7/24/2006 08:22:00 AM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

On taxes, how much extra would people be willing to pay for their perfect house?

Say you're looking in Town X and taxes are about $8,000 for most of the houses you're considering. Then up pops a house that you love (fantastic architecture, fantastic location, etc) but the taxes are double at $16,000.

How many would consider paying double taxes in the same town for a house they love?

Interested to hear any feedback, pro or con.

7/24/2006 09:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Property taxes will go up a certain percentage every year, and will certainly go up at least 60% in ten years if not more. So while the difference is $8,000 now, in ten years it will be at least $13,000 additional.

One way to look at it: if you plan to stay 10 yrs for example, you will have paid approx $105,000 more for this house than the other through higher taxes, less any income tax deductions of course.

JAY

7/24/2006 12:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
The exodus has already begun.

The NJ cities are going downhill
in a hurry.

The costs are out of control
and most residents are blind to
it.

7/24/2006 07:23:47 AM


Yeah, Newark, Camden, Trenton, are a shadow of their former selves...

7/24/2006 01:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yup... bingo... that's how my wife and i think of property taxes in NJ... we have a toddler... so, if we bought in NJ, we figure that we'd end up paying about 150K in total over a 15 year period.... and that's using a very conservative 10K estimate... the homes that we're looking at now are $8K in property taxes already.

7/24/2006 01:28:00 PM  
Blogger Space Ghost said...

The big question might be -- why are taxes double ? is the assessment double ? Does it seem to be over-assessed ? Is the house really worth twice as much ? How much extra are you paying in costs ?

Remember too that generally higher taxes in the same town on property will force value down. Remember too that mortgages get paid down, but property taxes rarely go down.

7/24/2006 01:45:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

Thanks for the input.

I don't know why the taxes are double on that house, they seem to vary so wildly from one street to the next.

You can compare 3BR houses, all similar square footage and lot size, and yet the taxes vary wildly.

It all makes a compellng case to rent forever, or move to another state.

7/24/2006 02:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about everyone appealing there next tax bill, it requires little time and would be interesting to have the town explain to every taxpayer why they should pay this amount and how they justify it. You would also meet the people in charge and that will be a real eye opener.

7/24/2006 03:46:00 PM  
Blogger StonePearl said...

I've sold my place in Hoboken (very fortunate to have bought in '03 and still make a 100k profit.)
I will not be staying in NJ though. The taxes are just nuts.
I also hate renting so Im trying to figure out where to move that has lower taxes but is a decent place for a 30 single female who wnats good shopping and nice nightlife.

7/24/2006 04:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

all in NJ have lost the point of property taxes. The goverment is supposed to work for the people, and tax them the bare minimum needed to cover 'essential' services. NJ is out of control. Governments are self serving animals that are rabid for cash and corruption. Cops and teachers are way overpaid and way 'under worked' Teachers in NJ drive BMWs and only work 180 days. Cops are meatheads driving 40k Dually pickup rig, and have boats down the shore... granted though some do take flack from real criminals, most NJ cops just prey on poor folks for minor motor vehicle stuff... in a state where the avg car insurance is $3000/yr. This place is like the twighlight zone.

7/24/2006 06:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

btw, just drove from Chester, NJ to Short Hills, NJ. my radar detector went off 7 times. that is 7 times more than it did on I40 from NewMexico to Tennessee. once again, this state and the zombie residents are all mentally ill for putting up with this crap and the taxes and the car insurances and the income taxes, and now the 7% sales tax. Stick up your garden...state.

7/24/2006 06:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Going through some old family papers, this weekend, I came across my uncles 1974 tax bill. It was 1190.80, for his cape in West Orange.

Donna

7/24/2006 07:14:00 PM  
Blogger Space Ghost said...


once again, this state and the zombie residents are all mentally ill for putting up with this crap and the taxes and the car insurances and the income taxes, and now the 7% sales tax. Stick up your garden...state.


Just curious, why are you here then ?

7/24/2006 07:32:00 PM  
Blogger RentinginNJ said...

Donna,

What, may I ask, is the tax bill today? Assuming no improvements and adjusting for CPI, the bill would be $4897 in 2006.

7/24/2006 07:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey,

Space Ghost

What's holding you back?

7/24/2006 08:11:00 PM  
Blogger Space Ghost said...


What's holding you back?


The main reason is that I can make 2-3 times as much in NYC as I can anywhere else except maybe California, where housing is even more expensive.

Besides, I like the proximity to the incredible cultural center that is NYC.

My main problem with NJ is frankly the weather.

7/24/2006 08:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Argh... I really wish NJ would get a handle on it's taxes.

Take a look around upstate NY if you want to see what happens when taxes go too high.

They can't GIVE those properties away. I wanted to buy an upstate gem last year til I took a look at the taxes I'd be paying for the rest of my life (even if they never went up!-fat chance).

At some point, it just doesn't pencil out anymore.

NJ's still got a lot of really nice cities and towns.

Don't wreck 'em by running everyone out with high taxes!

7/24/2006 09:31:00 PM  
Anonymous NJREFUGEE said...

all in NJ have lost the point of property taxes. The goverment is supposed to work for the people, and tax them the bare minimum needed to cover 'essential' services. NJ is out of control. ..... in a state where the avg car insurance is $3000/yr. This place is like the twighlight zone


I agree. The situation in NJ is just insane when one considers the cost of housing, real estate taxes, auto insurance and the overall quality of life compared to other places. The only thing NJ has going for it is proximity to NYC and believe me, that doesn't justify the economic insanity. People are going to leave NJ in droves.

7/24/2006 09:37:00 PM  
Blogger Space Ghost said...

Housing prices in update NY (except for a few areas) have barely kept up with inflation in the last 10 years. The loss of manufacturing jobs (especially Polaroid and GE) have hurt the area badly.

7/24/2006 09:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The big question might be -- why are taxes double ? is the assessment double ? Does it seem to be over-assessed ?

Unless you plan to file a tax appeal after you buy it, these questions are academic. (Although it does sound like their might be good grounds for an appeal based upon your description of similar houses w/lower taxes.)

JAY

7/25/2006 12:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Space Ghost said...
"Housing prices in update NY (except for a few areas) have barely kept up with inflation in the last 10 years. The loss of manufacturing jobs (especially Polaroid and GE) have hurt the area badly."
7/24/2006 10:45:46 PM

Space Ghost is there anything you don't know? :)
Sincerely, The guy who can't stand gun grabbing, high taxing, Socialists.

7/25/2006 01:44:00 AM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

Look at this:

------------------------------

http://www.pemberton-twp.com/Assessor.htm

The following items may affect the assessed value:

Conversion of attic, basement, garage, or porch into living area;

Installation of bath or powder room, Central Heating/AC, Fireplace, Porch or Patio, Additions, Garages and other structures, In Ground Swimming Pools, Siding.

------------------------------


New siding and central air conditioning?

7/25/2006 09:39:00 AM  
Blogger Space Ghost said...

I meant Kodak and GE (in terms of NY lost jobs).


The only thing NJ has going for it is proximity to NYC and believe me, that doesn't justify the economic insanity


I don't know. If you compare housing prices in the NYC metro area to other such cities around the world (Paris, London, Tokyo, Hong Kong), prices are still probably lower (even after a 10 year slump for Tokyo)

7/25/2006 12:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who cares about being close to NYC... do you want to be close to mushroom cloud... I don't so moved out. F Broadway tix prices... you can see those plays elswhere in the nation for $20, not $120. F the food, Vegas has good restaurants too. F the pizza, it's all made by mexicans now anyway, who don't know the real pizza of the 50s and 60s. F the Yankees and the $8 hotdogs. F the entire place. Space Ghost, I am not here, I wrote the "NJers are Zombie" comments b/c you are zombies. If all you care about is money, then good, because you can't take to the grave. life is too short. Ok, so we can make 200k/yr in NYC and ride the yuppie express to Shorthills each night, but before you know it, 28 becomes 58, and your DONE!!!

7/25/2006 04:19:00 PM  
Blogger Space Ghost said...

Unrealtor -- anythings thats considered a capital improvement can drive up your rates. Installing CEntral AC definitely, although probably not by much. New Siding -- sometimes. Repairing existing siding or AC is different.

7/25/2006 04:56:00 PM  
Anonymous UnRealtor said...

So if one buys a 'fixer upper' in the hopes of saving money, once they fix it up, they'll get hit with a big tax bill.

There's no way to catch a break, it seems...

7/25/2006 05:36:00 PM  
Blogger Space Ghost said...


So if one buys a 'fixer upper' in the hopes of saving money, once they fix it up, they'll get hit with a big tax bill.


It depends a lot on town policies and whether you're carrying out repairs or capital upgrades. Also, in some cases, a town permit might not be needed so the town wouldn't know till they re-assess.

You can even skip a permit for some other cases, but I would be very vary of any major work (that involves electricity, moving supporting walls, plumbing etc.) done without a permit.

7/25/2006 07:21:00 PM  
Blogger Space Ghost said...


Who cares about being close to NYC... do you want to be close to mushroom cloud... I don't so moved out.


Any city in the US can be a mushroom cloud target. I would hazard the threat to NYC is probably lower than during the height of the cold war.


F Broadway tix prices... you can see those plays elswhere in the nation for $20, not $120


You can't see the best Broadway plays elsewhere, and certainly not with the kind of sets and music. In any case, you can most definitely get tickets for $20, not on Broadway, but in off broadway shows that are also very good.

F the food, Vegas has good restaurants too.

Vegas ain't that cheap either any more, and while Vegas's top restaurants are as good as NYCs, NYC has a bigger mix of midrange, diverse restaurants


F the pizza, it's all made by mexicans now anyway, who don't know the real pizza of the 50s and 60s


SOmeone must tell Grimaldis that, and in any case there is culinary life beyond Pizza.


Space Ghost, I am not here, I wrote the "NJers are Zombie" comments b/c you are zombies.


I may or may not be a zombie but at least I don't waste my time on a blog that is dedicated to a state that I left.


If all you care about is money, then good, because you can't take to the grave. life is too short. Ok, so we can make 200k/yr in NYC and ride the yuppie express to Shorthills each night, but before you know it, 28 becomes 58, and your DONE!!!


You're going to be 58 irregardless of whether you live in NYC or Montana. You're right though life is short. Its too short to spend cowering in survivalist camps in Idaho in fear of the mushroom cloud.

7/25/2006 07:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

irregardless is considered non-standard by educated people

7/25/2006 09:13:00 PM  
Blogger Space Ghost said...


irregardless is considered non-standard by educated people


Largely language pedants. I'm not one and I'm not writing a formal document either

7/26/2006 09:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Atlantic City-Ventnor City

Aloha everyone. Goes like this....

As I watched prices soar last year. I placed my house on the market after a trip to Hawaii and realized I could afford living here (Honolulu)-no insults about NJ for now.

Factoring in taxes, energy costs and commute costs. Dollar per dollar, to live in Hawaii doesn't cost much more than living in NJ.

I purchased this home in 1999 for $83,000.

Ventnor NJ
1200 sq. built 1930 brick rowhome 3br/2ba. Working class neighborhood. Mainly casino jobs
Taxes = $4,880!
Mortgage = 925.00 + 380.00 tx =1300

Listed Nov. 05
OP = 309,000

Jan. 06
AP = 279,000

Feb. 06
sold for 249k

I am now renting a 800 sq. 1BR/1.5 condo in desirable area with balcony (lanai) with panoramic views of the Pacific! pool, gym and all that good stuff.
mid rise condo.

Rent= $1400 (elec/cable included)

I'm watching prices fall here as well. Word on the street is that housing prices will continue to fall here for the next 2 yrs. But seeing NJ catch up to West Coast prices...that was great! Enabled me to afford the move! Thanks NJ for once!
Aloha.

Oh, and will the last one out of NJ, please take down the toll boths....

7/28/2006 03:25:00 AM  
Anonymous webmaster said...

We need more Southern Jersey blogs and articles on the housing bubble simular to http://nnjbubble.blogspot.com People are moving and loosing their homes in record numbers through out the 609,856 Burlington, Cherry Hill(Camden) County's etc..to.

by:
webmaster@lowermynjpropertytax.org

Come Read and Join:
http://www.lowermynjpropertytax.org

7/30/2006 12:30:00 PM  

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