Realtor Response to Relisting Piece
Interesting response to this Star Ledger piece on relisting:
Practice hides the real deal on homes for sale in Jersey
Came across the response early this morning:
The wrong location
Practice hides the real deal on homes for sale in Jersey
Came across the response early this morning:
The wrong location
-- Jeffrey Consentino, Hillsborough Nothing to hide As a full-time professional Realtor with a premier New Jersey residential brokerage company, I take exception to your Aug. 20 article on the sleight of hand prac ticed by a few agents in the state. This slanted report relies on four other states for a comparison. New Jersey probably has the nation's most comprehensive rules and guidelines encompassing laws and ethics designed to protect the consumer in the purchase of a home. If the time was taken to research and interview the vast majority of Realtors like myself or brokerages like the one where my license hangs, people would learn that this practice is not tolerated because it is a deception. We have a responsibility, and we believe that all parties are to be treated equally.
To quote a Realtor in Cape Cod about a wrong practice by a few in New Jersey and make it front-page news is a disservice to one of the state's most valuable businesses. If the public perceives it, then it is real, but in this case it isn't the truth. Buyers and sellers should speak to their Realtors. The right choice has nothing to hide.
39 Comments:
jr
you dont have to give them 6%
and i have also seen this done more then a few times in 2 different areas of the state. first burlington county and now sussex county. so its a little more then a few bad apples
Wow, jr junky, I assume since it's such an easy and lucrative job, you're a realtor, right? I think I'm going to go sign up tomorrow, too, so I can "by" a Mercedes for myself.
That's a ridiculous statement to make.
Realtors should be paid one percent plus there advertising costs. That's all there worth. Sales clerks folks, that's all they are !!
take a look at this ppt
http://www.realtor.org/Research.nsf/pages/presentations_use
look for the first ppt on this page.
Some really interesting number compilation...
SJ
Reading your posts regarding the realtors commissions, brought up another topic.
If you are looking to buy, remember even if prices hold over the next 5-7 years and you have to sell, you are at risk for a big loss.
If you buy a house at 500k, the market stabilizes (wishful thinking) and you need to sell in 5 years, you lose almost 50k or 10%. This # includes realtor's commission, closing costs on both ends and the RE transfer fee (goes to the state). By the way, how much less will the state be bringing in if this industry goes into a major slump??? You would need 10% appreciation to break even. Now do you think there is a better chance of a 30-40% decline, retracement of the frenzy trade (frenzy carry) or a 10% appreciation??? Your call.
BC Bob
Seen this practice in Illinois, too. Some realtors get edged out of their office if their listed properties have too many "DOM's".
Come down from throne!
BS!
Realtor = very very very veeeery expensive TOUR GUIDE.
BOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAA
Bob
BC Bob,
You’re absolutely right.
Only wish I hadn't had to buy last year. Didn't really want to, but because of certain circumstances I had to.
I know it's probably wishful thinking, but I hope you're wrong.
Bill
BC Bob,
You’re absolutely right.
Only wish I hadn't had to buy last year. Didn't really want to, but because of certain circumstances I had to.
I know it's probably wishful thinking, but I hope you're wrong.
Bill
"New Jersey probably has the nation's most comprehensive rules and guidelines encompassing laws and ethics designed to protect the consumer in the purchase of a home."
Demonstrably false in 10 seconds:
http://search.har.com/cs_singlefamily.htm
Look up any single family home and you'll see the address posted in the listing, as well as detailed info about the property. NJ realtors hide this info, forcing people to make a phone call to a realtor about a property for which they have no interest, had they known the address beforehand.
Add in the widespread and frequent practice of relisting properties under a new MLS # to hide days on market and price drops, and we have the shady NJ realtors in a nutshell.
My sister-in-law is a realtor and from what she says her commission is split so many ways by the time she gets paid she is lucky if she does see 1% yet she has told me she has spent months with people who never buy and says that’s just part of the business.
This realtor closed almost $8M in properties in two weeks:
http://sueadler.blogspot.com
That amounts to:
$160,000 @ 2% commission
$240,000 @ 3%
$320,000 @ 4%
$400,000 @ 5%
$480,000 @ 6%
In two weeks. Say it was for two months.
Should a realtor make more than a brain surgeon?
The only way they can, is by having the realtor MLS cartel, whereby deception and information imbalance enters the equation, and competition does not exist.
I do not get it; what is the hostility towards RE agents? If the system is so broken, stop using them. Sell the house on your own. If you are so morally opposed to these "over priced tour guides", make sure that you only by from FSBO. But for fuck's sake, understand what you're doing: a listing agent is a sales person, they are going to do everything they can to sell a property. Have your own buyer's agent, someone to look after your interests. And when you see a property you like, buy it because you think it is at a fair price, in a location that you want to live in. But don't get pissed at agents because speculators have run up the market... besides the fact that those greedy assclowns are about to get what's coming to them.
..they are going to do everything they can to sell a property."
There is the problem.U left out ethics. And there is little of this the last few years.
Go out an abuse a few money grubbing sellers and Starving realtors. It's time to bring both these groups down to earth after years of abusing buyers.
Bleed'em Dry.
Ethics? What happened to personal responsibility? Watch your own ass! I don't trust anyone I don't know, let alone someone who is trying to convince me something is a great deal in what I know to be an over-priced market.
Look, IANA lawyer, realestate professional, or even a home owner; but I am someone who has wanted to buy a house for the last four years. But that entire time it has been apparent that the market is way over priced.
Now, anyone could have bought four years ago and sold 18 months ago for a hell of a profit. But it seems like too many people bought four years ago and kept thinking "oh, it's going to go higher, and higher, and higher!", and are now starting to sweat bullets over adjustable mortgages they cannot afford, looking to blame anyone they can except themselves! Don't blame the realtors, don't blame the mortgage lenders, just buck up and admit that you over extended your means to finance a bad decision.
Jim Cramer is a bit of a nut job, but he has one line that I think is brilliant: "Bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered."
Sorry for the lack of topics this morning, had an early meeting in the city.
Fed to release the minutes from the last FOMC meeting in a bit over two hours. Should be plenty of news to digest shortly.
jb
This one goes out to Mr. $300 Jeans.
Manhattan Teen Accessories: Jeans, $500-an-Hour Tutor
grim
"Have your own buyer's agent, someone to look after your interests."
Are you serious, or engaging in parody?
"What happened to personal responsibility?"
How can one engage in "personal responsibility" when realtors fully control information, and disclose only what they see fit?
Top ten reasons I as a buyer AM and continue to be "pissed" at agents [not all agents. I have met one or two that are working hard to do a good job with their available resources.]
= = = = = = = = = = = =
10.) They never seem to give a knowledgeable or straight answer about questions at open houses. If you're there, know the house or reschedule until you do.
Buyer Q: "Has this wall been moved for a reason?"
RE Answer: "Uh, I think this is original (clearly looking at crooked/removed wall area).
Q- "Do those dogs in the house next door bark all the time like that?"
A- "Oh, I didn't notice."
9.) They tell you things that they shouldn't, hurting the seller. Would you ever use an agent to sell YOUR house if the agent told someone (me) at an open house that the sellers inherited and just want to get an offer?
8.) Their firm's investment group bids against you on a house (when you are using the same firm!) and WINS the house against you.
7.)The listing descriptions for their own properties sound more professional than the descriptions of their client homes. Now I can always spot a realtor-owned property..no "cozy, quaint" anywhere. Stab clients in the back, why don't we?
6.) I forget, but there is a number six. Feel free to improvise.
5.) Why does a buyer need to re-read every document at a closing? Let's pay thousands of dollars in fees and still not be able to trust anybody.
4.) Their spokespersons at higher levels appear to freely adjust data without continuing notation, and they omit facts concerning housing data (this omission is as bad as a lie). Do lower-level agents confront them under any type of internal ethics code of conduct..SOX voluntary policies? Not so sure.
3.) They do not work for me, either way (even the buyer's agent) and they always try to get me to tell them my price, and then they procede to give me listings at least 30-50k higher anyway.
Why should I trust them from the get-go or bother telling them anything?
2.) They always say "buyers are liars." I've overheard it many times lately. Self-explanatory. Never question client integrity, only facts.
1.) My firm belief in free markets as taught to me by this American school system. Why do real estate agents exist anyway, and who's paying to keep these dinosaurs in existence? THE CONSUMER.
If all data were available freely (or for a reasonable fee) how many agents would be needed? Obviously, I'd still have to pay for an attorney review, but that seems fair.
Just a pet peeve- why can't every house have a link to an inspection report like HUD homes do? What IS up with that? I have to have my car inspected..shouldn't homes have a basic inspection requirement, which can be provided at listing date?
Pat
How can one engage in "personal responsibility" when realtors fully control information, and disclose only what they see fit?
Find a realtor you know and trust. Fuck, go to the county court house and find out what a property's last selling price was. Of just go to the library and read last year's classifieds... and the year before's... and the classifiedes from the year before that one. Do your own research. Spend your money wisely.
Really think about it: what would you do if there weren't realtors? And then, sit down and do all that work. Spend the time analyzing the market, going over past selling prices, visiting and appraising the houses you'd like to buy.
But most importantly: figure out what you think is a fair price, and don't spend a dime more.
"Find a realtor you know and trust."
Right, because a realtor will say "Don't trust me." Due to the NAR "code of ethics" (i.e., none) realtors are inherently untrustworthy.
I have no plans to use a realtor, but they control ALL the information. Info from town halls is months old, and time consuming to acquire (plan on 1 hour for each inquiry). And town hall doesn't know days on market, or price drop information.
Anyway, you're sending mixed messages:
1) "Find a realtor you can trust"
2) "Realtors shouldn't be trusted"
Which is it?
People here are doing their own research, but MLS information is controlled by realtors, who manipulate the data and share only what they choose.
And about this: "figure out what you think is a fair price, and don't spend a dime more."
A "fair price" will change for a house on the market 250 days, vs 2 days. Same for a house that dropped the price 6 times, vs one just listed at original price. Realtors manipulate this key data all the time.
Watch the language please, I don't want to delete long comments because of a single word, but I will if it gets out of hand.
grim
""Unethical stuff goes on all the time in any business (Bush lying about WMD's???)."
I don't know how you made the leap from realtors to "Bush," but he didn't "lie" about WMD:
http://freedomagenda.com/iraq/wmd_quotes.html
Take the politics discussion offline or to the forums please.
grim
Bottom line:
If someone works for a commission, you can't trust them and they will tell you anything for you to sign that dotted line.
Yes, I am sure your Auny Sally in Lusk, Wyoming is an honest broker, but a honest broker is a very hard things to find.
So, just except it, and either play the game, or don't use them.
I never sold RE with RE agents.
SAS
I'm sorry if my message was mixed (and vulgar), let me condense it:
Don't trust anyone trying to sell you anything. Find a professional to help you buy something, or do your own research into the market.
Grim wrote: Info from town halls is months old, and time consuming to acquire (plan on 1 hour for each inquiry).
Well, what pays for the infrastructure that makes that info so readily available? Hint: it is the sales commissions (which, in my experience, are very rarely 6% these days).
People seem to want it both ways: "Give me all the information I want! Quickly and easily! Oh, and for free!" The data is there. You have to decide if you want to spend the time looking for it, or if you are going to find a professional to compile it for you.
As for finding a realestate agent to work with: again, do your homework. Ask your friends and colleague for recommendations; ask perspective RE agents for references. If you don't like a realestate agent, stop working with them. Heck, if they do something illegal or unethical then report them!
Really, what more can I say than "in everything you do, look out for yourself?"
CORRECTION: I was quoting unrealtor above, not grim. My apologies.
Worst realtor of the week nominee: The realtor was showing a 4BR split and at the end of the tour, we asked "where is the basement". He said the home had no basement. We wondered where you would put all your "stuff". We left and once outside, I noticed basement windows and proceded to go back into the home and ask the realtor, "if there is no basement, then what is that subterranean room in there". "Oh my goodness, of COURSE there is a basement. Please accept my apologies." As it turned out, there was a large basement with top of the line and new water heater and water conditioning system and a built in cedar closet great for storing clothes. A few big pluses to a buyer that would otherwise have gone unoticed. So SELLERS beware... some of your realtors are doing a shabby job of selling your homes.
jayb:
How about giving consumers the data the agent is using so the consumer just has to sit down in front of the PC. No agent necessary. That way there will be no manipulation.
Let me open up the last ten sales, this week, and even today, in my price range and zip, and then let me print available listings. I can drive, and I have an inspector ready, as well as a RE attorney.
I suppose I'm not being fair to consumers who WANT someone to do this search for them. However, I don't want this, and therefore, the data should be available to me.
Pat
Once again, when asked about the possibility of a downturn in housing, Robert Toll had this to say:
"I don't see any reason for it not to continue to be a good market. The doomsayers are predicting that there will be an implosion that will come from the recognition that the market is just floating on air and not sustainable and that it's going to wreak havoc on the economy. I think that's a lot of bull. I think housing price escalation will continue."
And once again insiders let loose with a barrage of selling, this time led by Bob Toll himself. In February 2005 he filed to sell 1.5 million shares of his stock, and as soon as that paperwork was submitted, he unloaded 777,500 for a total of $68 million. Following in his footsteps were the company's president, executive vice president, and several directors. These sales occurred at or near record highs at the time.
By May 2005, the problems in the housing market were mounting. Inventories were growing, and the Fed was approaching the one-year anniversary of its rate hike campaign with little indication that it was going to stop. Mortgage rates were moving higher. Still, the Toll Brothers chairman sounded unperturbed. On May 10 he offered these reassuring words to investors:
"Demand for luxury homes remains strong, and we continue to enjoy solid pricing power..."
Soon after Bob Toll made those comments, his brother sold another 250,000 shares at a price of $91.72 per share.
Fast-forward to today. Toll Brothers' stock is trading at $26 (split-adjusted) per share. The company's net income has declined 16 percent, even though Bob Toll predicted it would be 20 percent higher this year. Now Mr. Toll's assessment of conditions has suddenly turned more cautious. Little more than a week ago he made these statements:
"It appears that the current housing slowdown, which we first saw in September '05, is somewhat unique ... It seems to be the result of an oversupply of inventory and a decline in confidence. Speculative buyers who spurred demand in '04 and '05 are now sellers; builders who built speculative homes must now move their specs; and nervous buyers are canceling contracts for homes already under construction."
Moreover, he referred to a "continuing malaise" that was "undermining consumer confidence and keeping buyers on the sidelines." Long gone is the haughty talk of a housing slowdown just being "a lot of bull."
"Sit down with a realtor and make him show you the data. There's no manipulation when you're right next to him looking at it."
So if I'm sitting right next to a realtor, and a listing says "DOM: 2" and priced at "$795,000" there's no data manipulation? And I'm not the critical thinker?
The MLS data is often manipulated, so whether you're sitting next to the realtor or not is moot.
"You have to decide if you want to spend the time looking for it, or if you are going to find a professional to compile it for you."
That's sorta the point: the "professional" is compiling maipulated MLS data, and the public has no access to the data without the "professional."
Realtor apologists are too focused on the realtor part of the equation. Realtors are feeding clients MLS data, which is manipulated. If the NAR ensured MLS data was both accurate and honest (no price drop relistings allowed) realtors wouldn't have as many opportunities to be deceptive.
As for whether people have a legitimate complaint with all this, it is indeed illegal to deceive consumers (e.g., false advertising), and illegal to collectively manipulate pricing (e.g., bogus MLS data).
"Now if NAR or whoever is reporting bogus info, that's not my problem. That doesn't make me a bad agent as long as I'm not feeding into that nonsense by relisting my properties..."
So you're another resident realtor.
I've never had an agent volunteer the listing history of property -- they always just show the "current" listing, which does not indicate prior listings or prior MLS numbers.
An agent can search by address to get this info, but they do not volunteer it, and the GSMLS listings do not include it.
All MLS listing systems should comply with a NAR "code of ethics" to include the listing history, and realtors who re-list for a price drop should be fired.
What tweaks people is NAR commercials that hype how ethical the NAR and realtors are, when the behavior of both indicates exactly the opposite.
But people, aren't you forgetting...
Suzanne (the Realtor) researched it!!
(there, feel better now?)
My own experience
I work with an agent from Weichert. When he e-mails me a customer report for a listing, the DOM is always blank and it only shows the current price of the property. In other words it does not show any price adjustment since the original listing. I complained to my agent and asked for the missing information, he told me that he can't e-mail me the full listing with the information requested as the MLS system does not allow him TO E-MAIL THE CUSTOMER REPORT WITH THAT INFORMATION. I am not sure if this is a Weichert thing or Realtors thing in general.
My agent is an old time realtor and very honest /open with me, he would print the full report with all the data and give it to me or he will give that information over the phone on any property I may ask info about.
Any Comments
Cliffy
"he would print the full report with all the data and give it to me or he will give that information over the phone on any property I may ask info about."
Right, he's controlling all the information, and you're left to trust him with hundreds of thousands of dollars at stake.
People kill with less money at stake, always remember that.
What a fantastic thread.
Wish we had this one on the Seattle Bubble Blog.
The MLS is totally manipulated there, realtors even freely admit that, and nobody seems to care.
I believe Seattle was the town mentioned in the post that led to this thread, the place where it's so rampant the NWMLS "says" they are trying to stop it.
It's so handy to hide all the info and lie lie lie if your motive is to keep hose prices as high or higher than humanly possible.
The only way to trace MLS history there is to literally copy pages off the Realty Co. website and save for later use to check against when the MLS# changes.
What a pain in the neck!
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